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William Hulton Eyewitness Account
- Place: Manchester
- Role: Officer
- Occupation: Chairman of the Committee of Magistrates
Discussed the preparations of the magistrates in advance of the expected public meeting and the formation of a ‘committee of public safety’.made up of ‘distinguished men’. Talks of alarm in the district, fears of unions collaborating. Believes he had no option but to call in the military. Claims the yeomanry were attacked with stones even though the field had been cleared of stones that morning.
Account
Download accountWilliam Hulton, Esq. sworn: examined by Mr. Serjeant Hullock
Q. You are a Magistrate of this county?
A. I am one of them.
Q. And you was so in 1819?
A. I was.
Q. You was elected the chairman of the committee of the Magistrates?
A. I was, after its appointment.
Q. Do you recollect the time when the committee was formed?
A. The Magistrates were generally called together at the July Quarter Sessions, in Manchester.
Q. About the second week in July?
A. About the 18th July.
Q. About what number of Magistrates were there assembled at that time?
A. A very great number, at the New Bailey in Salford, in consequence of the requisition. They consisted of the principal Magistrates of the district.
Q. A remarkably large meeting?
A. A remarkably large meeting; unusually so.
Q. What occasioned such an unusually large meeting at that time?
A. The disturbed state of the country.
Q. Did the state of the country become the subject of consideration at that meeting?
A. Certainly; it was the only topic.
Q. Did any difference of opinion obtain upon the subject, among the gentlemen who so met?
A. Not the slightest.
Q. Was it then considered necessary to appoint a committee?
A. It was.
Q. And was a committee at that time appointed?
A. There was a committee appointed immediately afterwards, on that day—the committee were nominated and met soon after.
Q. Of which committee you was the chairman?
A. Yes.
Q. For what purpose was that committee deemed necessary?
A. To provide for the peace of the county, and the safety of the inhabitants.
Q. From your knowledge of the subject, was such a measure, in your judgment, necessary?
A. As a magistrate, I had opportunities of becoming acquainted with the state of the country. I knew that in every town, and in almost every village, there were union societies, conducted by committees, corresponding with each other by means of delegates.
Q. You had means of knowing that; repeat what you have just stated?
A. I knew, as a Magistrate, there were union societies in every town, and almost in every village, conducted by committees, corresponding with each other by means of delegates.
Q. Did your knowledge on the subject induce you to take these precautions?
A. That—and I should have added, there was a general panic throughout the district.
Q. Arising from these circumstances?
A. From these and other circumstances.
Q. How soon after the formation of the committee, did you assemble: and how soon did the committee begin its operations?
A. In three or four days; I am not sure whether it was not earlier.
Q. Of what number was the committee composed?
A. I think eleven or twelve were selected; two or three from each division.
Q. Did you from that time meet from day to day, or what were your periods of attending?
A. They varied from that time to the 16th. August; for instance, before the 9th. we had, I think, meetings from day to day, though I will not be positive.
Q. Did you institute such means as have been described, to obtain information of what was going on in the country?
A. We did derive information of what was going forward in the adjoining districts.
Q. Was that information of a character which tended to allay, or increase the opinion you formed, of the disposition of the lower classes?
A. It produced a rapid increase of alarm for the public safety.
Q. In consequence of information so obtained, did you take such measures as were calculated to preserve the public tranquillity?
A. Certainly.
Q. You was apprized of the intended meeting of the 9th. August?
A. We were; we had the requisition calling the meeting brought to us.
Q. That is what has been read here?
A. The same.
Q. Had you been apprized of any drilling or training in the county?
A. Certainly; from time to time, we received what we considered as positive information.
Q. Did you receive the information from one place, or from several parts of the country?
A. Several parts, and it was conveyed to us frequently, by gentlemen of the highest respectability.
Q. Did that information excite in your minds apprehensions for the public peace?
A. Undoubtedly.
Q. From the situation which you at that time held, Mr. Hulton, had you an opportunity of knowing whether similar apprehensions were entertained by other people?
A. The great mass of the people, all degrees and all classes, were under the greatest apprehension.
Q. Of course, you do not include in that statement, the description of persons who constituted the meeting of the 16th. August?
A. Of course not.
Q. Now, Mr. Hulton, you was apprized of the meeting of the 9th. August, which was put off in consequence of an intimation that it was illegal— how soon was you apprized of the intended meeting for the 16th.?
A. I think the notice for the meeting of the 16th. was given on Thursday the 12th., but I cannot say.
Q. A few days after the intended meeting of the 9th.?
A. Ye
Q. You was apprized of the intended meeting of the 16th. August some days before it occurred?
A. Certainly.
Q. After you was apprized of the proposed meeting of the 16th., were your meetings more frequent?
A. Certainly; they were almost permanent; for myself I did not return home, though I lived within twelve miles.
Q. You yourself, though living within twelve miles, did not return home?
A. Not for the last few days; I was entirely engaged in taking the proper precautions.
Q. Was you detained all night, solely for the purpose of attending this committee?
A. Solely; and for no other purpose whatever.
Q. Were there any other Magistrates, under similar circumstances with yourself, who were detained?
A. I cannot speak to that. I only know they were late in the evening, and early in the morning. I am quite certain that the last night or two, Mr. Trafford was added to the Magistrates.
Q. Mr. Hay—was he there?
A. Mr. Hay was there.
Q. Was he there ten or twelve days?
A. I believe he resided there permanently; I understood so.
Q. Where were your meetings held?
A. At the New Bailey, in the room which the Magistrates usually occupy.
Q. Were you in constant communication with the boroughreeve?
A. Constantly, with the authorities of Manchester.
Q. Were these meetings and these attendances, for the mere purpose of taking proper precautions against the meeting of the 16th.?
A. Solely.
Q. Were you assisted at all in your labours by the gentlemen of the place—the town of Manchester?
A. There was a committee formed. It was formed as a committee of public safety, with whom we were in constant communication.
Q. Were the views and objects of that committee the same as yours?
A. They had no other object.
Q. Of what description of persons were the committee composed?
A. Of some of the principal gentlemen of the town and neighbourhood of Manchester.
Q. Gentlemen of property?
A. Gentlemen of great property; the most distinguished men of the place.
Q. What number might there be?
A. I am not aware.
Q. On the 15th., did you meet on the Sunday together?
A. We did: directions were given that we should meet directly after Church.
Q. Did you come to such resolutions on that day, as you thought calculated to promote your object?
A. We made such arrangements as we thought requisite, to meet what we deemed impending danger.
Q. Did you take such steps on that day, or give such directions, as were calculated to preserve the peace on the following day?
A. Certainly.
Q. About what hour of the 16th. did you go to Mr. Buxton's house?
A. We assembled at the Star about nine o'clock in the morning; nine was the hour appointed, and we met sooner. I think it was about eleven when we went to Mr. Buxton's house.
Q. Was that house selected as affording the best view?
A. It was; it commanded a perfect view of the area.
Q. Did the room you assembled in at Mr. Buxton's house, afford a view of the whole place?
A. It commanded a perfect view of all the field.
Q. When you got there, do you remember whether a cart had arrived.?
A. I have a little doubt. The impression on my mind is that one cart was on the field.
Q. Were the greater part of the committee assembled there?
A. I think every member of the committee was present, but one. There was one who had attended at the New Bailey, who happened not to be present—Mr. Entwistle. All the others who had attended were present, except Mr. Trafford.
Q. From time to time you observed the people come on the ground?
A. I did occasionally: when I was attracted by any particular noise, I went to the window; otherwise I generally sat at the table.
Q. Do you remember any applications, in the course of the morning, by any number of gentlemen, respecting their apprehensions concerning the safety of the town?
A. I think there was a paper handed to the Magistrates—a declaration of the apprehensions of the inhabitants, and the danger to the town from such a meeting. I think that paper was brought to me, as chairman of the committee of Magistrates.
Q. Do you remember this being brought up to you? (shewing a paper.)
A. Perfectly well.
Q. Did you read it at the time?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you know any of these persons?
A. I am acquainted with a great many of them.
Q. Are they gentlemen of respectability and property in Manchester?
A. Of the highest respectability.
Q. Did these gentlemen, at that time, express their apprehensions for the safety of the town?
Mr. Blackburne.—I must object to gentlemen stating the apprehensions of other persons. I submit we are not to receive evidence of the alarms of gentlemen, but from themselves. What took place before the Magistrates is no evidence to affect my client; other gentlemen signing this paper is no evidence. I know not upon what issue that evidence is tendered. If there are any who felt terror and alarm, we must be told of it by those who so felt it, and are not to receive it from others. We are not enquiring into what occurred before the Magistrates. I cannot see how the evidence which has been offered, can be legal.
Mr. Evans.—I am yet to learn whether any evidence can be given, but what is legal evidence.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—Certainly, no evidence will be received but what is legal evidence—at least none but what the Judge thinks is legal; you may take that for granted; and if any evidence should be improperly received, it may be set right afterwards. I am aware it is an important part of my duty to exclude what is not evidence. I am most anxious to do so; and if any thing should be admitted that is not legal evidence, no doubt it can be set right.
Mr. Evans.—What is this but hearsay evidence?
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—It is evidence this way. The Magistrates, in the course of their duty, made enquiries in order to get all the information as to the state of the town and neighbourhood. A variety of facts were proved as to the very alarming state of the country, and, at least, it was for the consideration of the Magistrates, what steps were necessary to be taken for the preservation of the peace of the town, under these circumstances. They were met together to consult for the general safety; and one question is, how far their apprehensions are real. Now this declaration is not clear proof that those persons who signed it felt the alarms they expressed; but it is proof that such a representation was made by them, and handed by them to the Magistrates, expressing their fears and apprehensions for the tranquillity of the town. That would make the Magistrates more anxious in adopting such measures as were necessary to insure the public safety; it would call for their more serious consideration and attention, in the discharge of their important duties; it would prompt them not to neglect any means of prevention and security which, in the exercise of their duty, might be suggested to them. Now, whatever alarm these persons might have felt, and that they did feel alarm we must presume, for they have attested the fact by their signatures, yet I do not understand that this declaration is offered as any evidence of the alarm of the individuals, but only as a representation, which might fairly induce them to call in the aid of the military to support the execution of the process by the civil power. It appears to be an earnest representation to the Magistrates, urging them to the performance of their important duties. And it is to be recollected, that this is not an action against the Magistrates, but it is an action against four of the military, who were called in by the Magistrates to assist in the execution of the measures determined upon by the civil power. Whether the Magistrates came to a right conclusion or not in calling in the military, is not the question here. The military were bound, when called upon, and without being called upon, to assist the civil power. The King's subjects are all of them bound, at their peril, to lend their aid in support of the civil power. It is very true that if they were acting even by order of the Magistrates against a lawful assembly, they, as well as the Magistrates themselves, and all persons assisting the Magistracy would act at their peril, unless protected by the operation of the statute of George II. This is one of the questions. If the question was, which it is not on this record, whether the calling in the military was necessary or unnecessary, then they would be at liberty to go into evidence, to shew a reasonable ground for calling in the military. The issue here is not whether the military were called in necessarily or unnecessarily, but whether they were acting in aid of the civil power; and if they were, then it would be necessary if an action like the present one could be maintained at all, that it should be brought within six months; so that if the defendants were acting in aid of the civil power, it would be a complete defence, according to the state of the record. This is my opinion as at present advised.
Q. You remember about what time in the morning it was, when this paper was put in your hand?
A. It was after we had assembled at Mr. Buxton's house.
Q. Was it before Mr. Hunt came?
A. It was decidedly before he appeared on the ground.
Q. You say that from time to time your attention was attracted to the window by the noise; did you observe in what manner they marched—the divisions?
A. They marched in beautiful order; they marched and had persons at their sides at stated distances, who gave the word of command.
Q. Was it the same as it would be in a regular regiment, with music and banners?
A. In fact, such order as could only result from long previous preparation. I would wish to say, that it is mostly of those who came up the street near to where Mr. Buxton's house was, that I am speaking, for I had not the same means of judging of the others.
Q. Could you perceive, by the banners, whence they came?
A. No; we could not distinguish the banners.
Q. Did you see the parties take up their ground?
A. I did; they advanced a certain distance and wheeled. An order was given to wheel. They then turned round and marched up to the hustings, each party depositing their colours on the ground.
Q. I will not ask you as to the caps of liberty?
A. I saw them in considerable numbers.
Q. As to the sticks—had they sticks with them?
A. They certainly had—a great proportion of the men had sticks; I remarked it particularly.
Q. Do you mean of the whole assemblage or of the divisions?
A. A great proportion of the whole assemblage, that formed the crowd on our side.
Q. As far as you had an opportunity of observing the crowd, they had sticks?
A. They had, by far the greater number of men; that was the impression on my mind then, and continues to be so at this moment.
Q. Do you remember Hunt's arrival?
A. Perfectly well.
Q. Did you go to the window then?
A. I went immediately to the window.
Q. Did you ever hear such a shout before?
A. Never since I was born; and I hope I never shall again.
Q. Do you remember, soon afterwards, a warrant being filled, up?
A. I do, immediately.
Q. Is that the warrant? (producing a paper.)
A. It is.
Q. Look at the signatures. There are nine besides your own —do you know the hand writing?
A. I am acquainted with the writing of all except Col. Silvester, and I have no doubt it is his.
Q. Was this in your possession after it was signed?
A. It was.
Q. Did you send for the constable or the boroughreeve?
A. I sent for the boroughreve; he came: before it was absolutely finished, the boroughreeve, Mr. Andrew, and the deputy constable, Nadin, were in the room.
Q. Do you remember to which of these gentlemen you gave the warrant?
A. In the first instance I gave it to Nadin.
Q. Did you give him any directions?
A. I did; I told him to serve the warrant on the parties named— Hunt, Johnson, Knight, and Moorhouse.
Q. Did he take the warrant from you?
A. It did pass from my hands to him.
Q. What took place?
A. He said he could not serve it; and I remember the conversation that passed.
Q. What was it?
A. I said "what, not with all these special constables"? his answer was ---
Mr. Blackburne.—I must object to this evidence. It was ruled at York by Mr. Justice Bayley that it could not be given.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—The question there was not what was done by the military; the question was, whether it was an unlawful meeting, at which Hunt and the other defendants were present. Therefore what passed in the Magistrates' room could not be evidence against them. It was upon that ground the evidence was rejected.
Q. Your observation was, "what, not with all these special constables"?
A. That was my remark.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—The question here is not whether it was necessary to call in the military, but whether the military were acting in aid of the civil power.
Mr. Serjeant Hullock.—A warrant is given by Mr. Hulton to the officer; the officer says he cannot execute it. I am going to shew you the reason he had for saying so.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—I do not say it will decide the issue. The issue here, is not whether the employment of a military force was necessary. It was so in the case of Sir Francis Burdett. That was an action against the Sergeant at Arms, for breaking into his house in order to arrest him, under the Speaker's warrant; and the question was, whether he had come with a larger military force than was necessary, and whether he ought not to have first tried the civil power. And it was held, that it was not necessary, in the first instance, to try the civil power. In the case of the King and Coleman, I was one of the counsel; and I remember Mr. Serjeant Shepherd, now the Lord Chief Baron of Scotland, contending that he ought to have tried the civil power first. It was held, that whether he ought or not to have tried the civil power first, was for the consideration of the Jury; and that he was not bound to hazard the civil power, and put it unnecessarily in danger.
Q. In your judgment, Mr. Hulton, from the appearance the mob exhibited, would it have been safe to have entrusted the execution of the warrant to the civil power alone?
A. I quite concurred in the observations made by the boroughreeve, the head constable, Mr Andrew, and Mr. Nadin, the deputy constable, that it was impossible, and that I durst not take on myself the responsibility of ordering them to go without the military.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—This is what was said in the court of Exchequer in the case of Burdett v. Abbott. It was said by Sir James Mansfield, Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, in the Exchequer Chamber, and afterwards confirmed by the House of Lords. It is in respect of the soldiers acting in aid of the civil power. It was an action against the Speaker of the House of Commons. He says "much has been said about soldiers. I will correct a strange mistaken notion that has got abroad, that because men are soldiers they cease to be citizens. A soldier is gifted with all the rights of other citizens, and is bound to all the duties of other citizens, and he is as much bound to prevent a breach of the peace or a felony, as any other citizen. In 1780, this mistake extended to an alarming degree. Soldiers, with arms in their hands, stood by and saw felonies committed, houses burnt and pulled down before their eyes, by persons whom they might lawfully have put to death, if they could not otherwise prevent them, without interfering; some because they had no commanding officer to give them the-command, and some because there was no justice of the peace with them," Gentlemen, I witnessed some of these things, and, perhaps, there may be other persons in Court who may recollect them. "It is the more extraordinary, because formerly the posse comitatûts, which "was the strength to prevent felonies, must, in a great proportion, have consisted of military tenants who held lands by the tenure of military service. If it is necessary, for the purpose of preventing mischief, or for the execution of the law, it is not only the right of soldiers, but it is their duty to exert themselves in assisting the execution of a legal process, or to prevent any crime or mischief being committed. It is therefore highly important that the mistake should be corrected, which supposes that an Englishman, by taking upon him the additional character of a soldier, puts off any of the rights and duties of an Englishman." This was stated upon an occasion, which goes only to a part of the issue in the present case. Here the excess of the military force employed, is not in issue. If the Magistrates think proper to call in the assistance of the military, it is for them to judge of the necessity of doing so, upon a fair and reasonable consideration of all the circumstances of the case.
Q. Mr. Hulton, will you just repeat what you said?
A. The observations which I heard from the boroughreeve, Mr. Andrew, one of the head constables, and Mr. Nadin,the deputy constable, were such, that I durst not have taken on myself the responsibility of ordering the execution of the warrant without military assistance; and I am sure that all the Magistrates concurred with me in that opinion.
Q. That being your opinion, did you send for the military?
A. In concurrence with all the other Magistrates, I wrote two letters.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—Containing a request for the military?
A. One to Col. L'Estrange, and another to the commander of the Manchester Yeomanry. Mr. Trafford, of Oughtrington, the Magistrate, was with Col. L'Estrange. We had particularly deputed him to attend to the military, and he was with them the whole of the morning.
Q. Did he come with Col. L'Estrange?
A. He had been particularly deputed to that office, from an opinion that if we were unfortunately compelled to call in the military, it would be right to have one of our own body with them.
Q. Had they determined in the morning not to call in the military, unless the appearance of affairs should render it absolutely necessary?
A. After mature deliberation, we determined not to use the military force till the meeting assumed a decidedly illegal appearance; until we had no other means of preserving the peace of the town.
Q. When you wrote these two letters, had the meeting assumed such a character, as rendered it necessary to take such a step for insuring the safety of the town?
A. I considered, at that moment, that the lives and properties of all the persons in Manchester, were in the greatest possible danger. I took this into consideration, that the meeting was part of a, great scheme, carrying on throughout the country. We had undoubted information upon that point—of the existance of such a scheme, we had received undoubted information.
Q. That is one of the letters, (producing a letter,) addressed to the commanding officer, Portland-street.
A. At the time I wrote it, I did not know that this officer was one of the Manchester Yeomanry.
Q. Was that the nearest corps?
A. I understood that both would arrive at the same time; the other letter was nearly similar.
Q. Messengers were dispatched off with these two letters?
A. I gave them to one of the constables, directing him to do so.
Q. Do you remember the arrival of a troop of the Manchester Yeomanry?
A. I believe it was a squadron.
Q. They formed to the right of Mr. Buxton's house?
A. They formed to the right of Mr. Buxton's house.
Q. Had you any opportunity of observing the state of the field?
A. Previous to that, sometime previous, I had particularly observed one part of the field.
Q. What part of the field are yon now alluding to?
A. I went to the window, and I believe I saw the arrival of a second cart covered with planks, which was drawn to that part of the field where the hustings were. I understood there had been a cart before. I saw a cart come, covered with planks, upon which a considerable number of persons who had surrounded the first, being bareheaded, rushed between the hustings and the cart, and eventually got between the hustings and the special constables. I think they were in the act of joining the carts, but they moved the cart further from the house. There was a rush of the persons who were bareheaded, which made me remark the distinction between them and the constables.
Q. A rush into the interval made by moving the cart?
A. They filled up the space; one of the Magistrates had a small opera glass, which I borrowed, that I might more accurately observe what they were about; and I distinctly observed that they were linked arm in arm. I took particular notice with the glass, and I believe I immediately expressed what they were about, to the gentlemen who were in the Magistrates' room. I should wish to observe, that at no period of the day was the crowd so dense between the hustings and the Magistrates' house, as in other parts of the field; and therefore we had a better opportunity of observing what was going on on that side.
Q. The people between you and the hustings were not so dense as in other parts of the field: were you able to see how deep the persons were, who linked arm in arm in the way you have described; what number of rows there were?
A. The impression on my mind was then, that it was from eight to ten in depth. I have had no reason to change that opinion.
Q. That was the impression on your mind then, and continues so still?
A. Certainly. And I would beg to add, one strong reason with me for being convinced that the phalanx extended round the hustings, was, that when each party brought up their colours, and deposited them, there was no confusion by the additional pressure; there seemed to be a space given where the colours could be deposited.
Q. That is your reason for thinking the phalanx extended round the hustings, but you had no opportunity of judging of the other part?
A. I had no doubt it did.
Q. When the Cavalry drew up and formed in the way you have mentioned, near the house, how were they received by the mob?
A. There was a tremendous loud cheering. The people faced round, and waved their hats and sticks in the air. I heard some hisses, but I don't mean to assert that that was by any means general.
Q. Did you observe the advance of the Cavalry after that, towards the hustings—do you recollect any thing that intervened before that time?
A. The Cavalry returned the cheering and waved their swords.
Q. After that, did you observe the Cavalry advance?
A. I did.
Q. Do you remember by whom that part of the Cavalry was commanded, at that time?
A. I do not know.
Q. Did you see Mr. Moore, or Mr. Andrew, or Mr. Nadin with them?
A. I saw either all or some of them, but I will not charge my memory to say which joined them before the advance; I could not say they were in company in any way.
Q. Did you pursue the Cavalry with your eye towards the hustings?
A. Certainly, I did.
Q. Was your attention continued towards them, until they arrived at the hustings?
A. I observed them as nearly at the hustings as possible. I will not take on myself to swear whether they had absolutely reached the hustings or not, but it was as nearly as possible.
Q. Did they encounter any interruption or obstruction, at the place of which you are speaking?
A. There seemed to be a general resistance. I cannot swear that I saw any man or horse individually struck; there was a general resistance.
Q. In what way did that resistance appear?
A. I saw stones and brickbats flying; and I have no reason to doubt, I think, at whom they were levelled.
Q. You say you saw stones and brickbats flying?
A. I beg to say it was when they were just approaching very near the hustings. There was nothing I saw at the commencement.
Q. When they bad arrived nearly at the hustings?
A. I saw stones and bricks and missiles flying about.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—You said something about sticks.
A. Stones and bricks. I have no doubt sticks were there, but I can speak more positively as to stones or bricks; but there were missiles of all sorts.
Q. But to the other things you speak positively?
A. I have no doubt as to any part. I cannot speak further as to what was thrown; there were things flying in the air; it was just when they were coming up to the hustings. I cannot say whether they were in the act of surrounding the hustings or not, but it was just when they came up to the hustings. There might have been a considerable quantity thrown, and I not see them.
Q. Was there a vacancy in the rear of the Cavalry, or was that supplied by the people; or in what way was that occupied as they advanced?
A. The space which they had caused, if it could be called space, for they were so intermixed as scarcely to leave any thing like space, was immediately closed in.
Q. Were the Cavalry surrounded by the people when they reached the hustings, or near, the hustings?
A. Unquestionably; the mass of people had entirely surrounded them when they reached the hustings
Q. What was the impression upon your mind, then, respecting the situation in which the Cavalry at that time were?
A. I conceived the Cavalry, amounting then, as I believe they did, to only about sixty, and surrounded by that immense mob, in imminent danger: They were separated very quickly one from the other.
Q. By the intervention of different portions of the mob?
A. Certainly.
Q. Did that impression induce you to take any other steps for their safety; pursue any course for the safety of the Cavalry?
A. It did; Col. L'Estrange arrived under the windows of Mr. Buxton's house with part of the 15th., followed by part of the Cheshire Yeomanry.
Q. Did you give any orders, and what were those orders, to Col. L’Estrange?
A. He was looking up at the window and asking, “what am I to do," or "what are they doing?" I said, "good God sir, don't you see how they are attacking the Yeomanry; disperse the meeting"
Q. In your judgment, was that step necessary for the preservation of the Yeomanry?
A. I think such responsibility rested upon me, that if I had not done it, I should have been answerable for the lives of the Yeomanry.
Cross-examined by Mr. Blackburne.
Q. Now, Mr. Hulton, I understand you to say that you had information, which you believed correct, concerning corresponding societies?
A. Unquestionably.
Q. You were aware that, by law, you could suppress those societies?
A. I was not. I don't think I could—not without very absolute proof.
Q. The proof did not amount to such as you thought was sufficient to enable you to get rid of those societies?
A. It was such proof as left no doubt on my mind, nor, I believe, on that of any of the committee of Magistrates.
Q. On your mind?
A. On none. I should have heard it expressed if it had on the others.
Probably so; we must take their doubts from themselves. When you received the requisition for the 9th, placards were posted that it was illegal, and the people should not attend it?
A. Certainly.
Q. You say you afterwards received a requisition about the 16th —you saw that?
A. I saw that.
Q. No such order as not to attend it was issued on that occasion?
A. There was not, for this reason; that we considered the object, as specified in the second requisition, to be legal.
Q. And therefore did not forbid it?
A. Certainly; the avowed object of the second requisition we considered to be legal.
Q. You had, before that time, understood that these trainings and drillings were going on?
A. We had.
Q. Before that time, you had also received information as to the state of the country?
A. We had, from time to time, before the 16th.
Q. When was you, on the morning of the 16th., aware that parties were coming to Manchester?
A. I was not aware from whence the parties would arrive; I don't think any of the Magistrates were.
Q. Then you had not, then, information of the places from which the different parties were coming?
A. We expected them, undoubtedly. We had information of drillings, in different neighbourhoods, and unquestionably expected them.
Q. You had no doubt, parties were coming from the various places?
A. We had no doubt.
Q. Did you see the first party that came into the field arrive, or was there a party come before you went there?
A. We were all there before any party arrived.
Q. You saw the first that came?
A. Certainly.
Q. What time think you was it when they first arrived?
A. I should think perhaps half past eleven or something of that sort.
Q. You say that Mr. Buxton's house had a complete view of the area of the field?
A. It had.
Q. I presume the upper window has as complete a view as the one that you was in?
A. I should think better.
Q. As I understand you, you did not see any stones or brickbats thrown, until the Cavalry had got so close to the hustings, that you hardly knew whether, at that time, they were not at the hustings?
A. It was so; they were just approaching; They did hot surround the hustings, but they were just on the eve of surrounding them.
Q. Do you know about what distance it was, from Mr. Buxton's house to the hustings?
A. I know now; I miscalculated upon a former occasion. I believe it is about a hundred yards.
Q. At how great a distance from the hustings did the crowd of people extend, towards Mr. Buxton's house, previous to the constables and Yeomanry advancing?
A, I really cannot speak to distances. I should think nearly half way. I think there were more spectators on that side than on any other part of the field, and there were straggling parties all
ways. I should think it was nearly half way before the mob became very dense. I think so.
Q. Then I understand you to say, that when yon observed the locking of arms, it was a good while before the Cavalry advanced to the hustings?
A. It was.
Q. When you took the observation with the glass, it was a good while before?
A. Some time before, it certainly was.
Q. Some time?
A. It was a thing made very little impression upon me at the moment—the locking of their arms.
Q. You followed the Cavalry, you watched them go from Mr. Buxton's, house to the hustings; did you observe them the whole way?
A. No; I will not swear that; I cannot swear, it. Indeed, there were so many persons speaking in the room, so much noise, that I cannot say I saw them the whole time. There were so many objects that attracted my attention, that it is impossible to say whether I observed them the whole way or not.
Q. Did you afterwards see any body in Mr. Buxton's house that was wounded?
A. I did.
Q. A pregnant woman?
A. l really cannot answer for the woman's pregnancy.
Q. You did see a woman?
A. I did see a woman.
Q. How soon was that after the Cavalry had advanced to the hustings?
A. It must have been very quick; at least it was just as I went into the room, after Hunt was brought in custody, and I think the woman was there then. Really I am not very positive on that; I only know I did observe the woman in the room.
Q. From the time of the advance of the Cavalry from Mr. Buxton's to the dispersion of the crowd, how much time do you think was occupied?
A. Perhaps eight minutes—that is the probability if you mean the flight of the crowd. Am I to understand that you ask as to the total dispersion of the meeting?
Q. To the general dispersion?
A. I should think about that time.
Q. From their advance from Mr. Buxton's house?
A. Eight or ten minutes—eight minutes perhaps till their fight began. I think perhaps that would be the more correct way of putting it; but it was very rapid.
Q. And the multitude that had got together very large?
A. The multitude, of course, was immense; they fled the instant, apparently, that Col. L'Estrange advanced, and I deemed that the dispersion of the meeting, because the place was not cleared for a long time.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—You deemed Col. L'Estrange coming and acting, the dispersion of the meeting?
A. Certainly.
Q. Were you with Mr. Hay and Mr. Norris on the, evening of that day?
A. I was; at the Star Inn.
Q. Was Mr. Hay in the room, at the time when, you were looking out of the window,, and saw the Cavalry advance to the hustings?
A. He was not, I believe. I believe not. I believe he went down immediately upon the Cavalry forming in front of Mr. Buxton’s house. I believe so; but I will not be positive upon that point.
Q. Did you inform Mr. Hay of the stones and brickbats that you had seen?
A. It was a matter of common conversation—a matter of notoriety.
Q. As well known to Mr. Hay as to you?
A. I don't know that; but I should conceive so.
Q. Mr. Hay must have known, then, that the place had been cleared of cart loads of stones, before nine o'clock of the morning of that day?
A. I should think so.
Q. You considered it rather an important transaction?
A. I considered it a very important transaction. I did not know myself, the ground had been cleared of that immense quantity: I considered it a very important transaction, the throwing the stones.
Q. I need not ask you, Mr. Hulton, whether you feel a considerable interest in this question?
A. I certainly do feel a deep interest in it. Having said that, I hope you will allow me to add; that when I ordered the advance of the force of Cavalry, it was to save, and not to destroy, the lives of my fellow-creatures.
Re-examined by Mr. Serjeant Hullock.
Q. Do you know by what approach, or by what road, the cavalry came upon the ground?
A. The first squadron of the Manchester Yeomanry came up by Cooper-street, and turned round the corner of the wall near Mr. Buxton's house.
Mr. Serjeant Hullock.—Your lordship will see in the plan there is a dotted line.
Q. I think your note was directed to the commanding officer in Portland-street?
A. Portland-street.
Mr. Serjeant Hullock.—Your Lordship will, by the dotted red line, ascertain the road whereby the Cavalry approached the ground, that is, the Manchester Yeomanry. Then you will see also in the other part of the map, the line of approach of the Dragoons and the Cheshire Yeomanry, from St. John's Church, St. John-street, and they came on the ground, to the left of the row of houses, in which Mr. Buxton's house is situated; the others approaching from the right.
Questions by Mr. Blackburne.
Q. Will you have the goodness to tell me whether the Cheshire Yeomanry and the Hussars came together?
A. The Hussars preceded the Cheshire Yeomanry.
Q. Did they come together?
A. Very nearly. The 15th. Hussars preceded a little. I think there was a little space, but there was a very little.
Mr. Blackburne.—An interval, of a minute?
Mr. Serjeant Hullock.—A minute is every thing at that time.
Q. Was there not another troop of the Manchester Yeomanry that followed the 15th. Hussars?
A. I cannot speak to that.
Q. The other approaches to the field—the other avenues which led to and from the field, with the exception of those two whereby the Cavalry respectively approached, were then free and open to the people to get away?
A. The Magistrates had nothing to do with the military arrangements; every street was perfectly open.
Q. There was no obstruction to their moving from the field at any other avenue, with the single exception of those two?
A. Not that I know of. The Hussars came a long way round, and would have arrived, I hoped, at the same time.
Q. The two main approaches to the field were quite open and unobstructed during the whole of the time?
A. Certainly.
Mr. Serjeant Hullock.—That is the note from Mr. Hulton to the commanding officer in Portland-street. I will call a witness who carried it, and who delivered it.
Mr. Cross.—(Prothonotary.)—It is signed "Wm. Hulton," without date.
Mr. Serjeant Hullock—Just swear Mr. Joseph Birley.