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Joseph Nadin Eyewitness Account
- Place: Manchester
- Role: Officer
- Occupation: Deputy Constable
Testifies to disturbances at the Theatre during Hunt’s visit in January, to previous difficulties delivering warrants within a ‘mob’. This and threats from the crowd persuaded him that the warrant could only be issued with military assistance and refused to deliver the warrants until this was in place. Also claims he was hit by a stone.
Account
Download accountJoseph Nadin sworn: examined by Mr. Serjeant Cross.
Q. Mr. Nadin, you were the deputy constable of Manchester at the time these transactions occurred?
A. I was.
Q. And had been for many years before?
A. Yes.
Q. For twenty years, if not more?
A. Might be more or might be less.
Q. Or thereabouts. You have since retired, I believe, from that situation?
A. Yes, from deputy constable I have retired, but I am a constable still.
Q. Do you recollect the first arrival of Hunt in Manchester, in the month of January in that year?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you find, the town more quiet or more disturbed, during his visit?
A. More disturbed.
Q. Was that the case during, the whole of the week that he staid there in January?
A. Yes; either one time of the day or another, there was somewhat to do.
Q. And the night?
A. I was at the Theatre one night when there was a disturbance
Q. What, was he there?
A. Yes.
Q. Were any of the persons with him then, whom you arrested on the hustings, upon the 16th.?
A. I think Johnson was there, and a man of the name of Chapman, and Whitworth.
Q. Johnson and he were there together?
A. I believe there were four in the box.
Q. Were they in a retired or a conspicuous situation?
A. In. the stage box, near to the stage.
Q. Hunt, and Johnson the brush maker, and the other two whom you named?
A. Yes.
Q. You were saying, there was a disturbance there at the time?
A. Yes.
Q. What gave occasion to it?
A. I don’t know what gave occasion to it, but they, were carrying Chapman out of the Theatre.
Q. One of Hunt's company?
A. Yes.
Q. There was a disturbance?
A. Yes; and I told them I would not allow any person to be took hold of: they might go about their business. They went away, and came into the Theatre again.
Q. Was there a good deal of uproar in the house, or not?
A. There was.
Q. From thenceforth to the month of August, did you find the labours of your office increased or diminished?
A. Increased very much.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—When?
Mr. Serjeant Cross.—From January to August.
Q. You were at the meeting on the 16th. August, I believe?
A. I was.
Q. The body of special constables, we understand, were assembled first in a place called St. James's Square—was that so?
A. Yes.
Q. How many in number?
A. I cannot tell.
Q. 200 or 300?
A. 300 or 400, I suppose there might be, more or less; I cannot speak to the number;
Q. And they were stationed afterwards upon the field near St. Peter's?
A. They were.
Q. In two lines?
A. In double line.
Q. Did you move up and down among them, in the course of the morning?
A. Frequently, till Hunt came.
Q. Did you observe how the space between the further extremity of the line and the hustings was occupied?
A. When I came, there were a few people between the line of constables and the hustings till the black flag came; when there was a rush, and they were separated a great way from the hustings.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—When the black flag came, what then?
Mr. Serjeant Cross. —There was a considerable rush, and the constables were separated a good way from the hustings.
Q. Did you observe whether the persons who rushed, into the space had any hold of, or touched each other any way?
A. I had observed their being linked together before the black flag came.
Q. And after that, did they continue so linked, or had they separated?
A. They linked together more after that, when the black flag came; and I saw several people coming out of the crowd, and they unlinked to let them come out; some were poorly—two or three.
Q. In what manner were they linked?
A. Arm in arm.
Q. How many, in depth, to the best of your judgment, between the constables and the hustings, were they linked arm in arm?
A. After I had got the warrant.
Q. We will come to that presently.
A. I could not ascertain till after I had got the warrant.
Q. How many in depth were they linked then?
A. I should think ten or twelve, in the part where I was.
Q. In the part where you went with your warrant afterwards?
Q. Previous to your going with the warrant, had you heard any of the persons so linked say any thing about yourself?
A. There was a man I had often seen at the meetings before, with a roll of paper apparently, in his hand, and I saw him at the play house the night that Hunt should have come.
Q. In January do you mean?
A. Yes.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—You say a roll of paper?
A. Apparently, my Lord it was brown paper, and I saw something at one end of it.
Q. Did he say any thing?
A. No. He went in amongst the crowd.
Q. Before you had our warrant, and while you were near the persons linked, did you hear any of them say any thing about yourself?
A. There were reformers came up to the end of the line of constables for, a length of time before.
Q. Did you hear any of them say any thing about yourself?
A. That was when I was in the line of constables.
Q. Let us hear what that was?
A. They came to look at us.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—-Before you had got your warrant?
A. That was before the warrant.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—What then?
A. They said, “that is Joseph.”
Q. Well?
A. Others said, “he has a great guts, he has more meat in his belly than we have."
Q. Well?
A. Another said, "this is the black mob."
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—Alluding to you?
A. I took it they alluded to the constables that were there. Another said, "they have very good coats to their backs, they have better coats than we have."
Q. What then?
A. When this man that had the roll of paper, entered the mob, they unlinked.
Q. Did that admit him to or from the hustings?
A. He appeared to me to be going towards the front of the hustings.
Q. Did you hear any thing about spy?
A. I thought I would follow him and we were going down.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—Did you endeavour to follow him?
A. Yes; I thought I would see what he was going to do.
Q. Did you endeavour to follow him?
A. I did, and went several paces; somebody said, "a spy."
Q. Were you then near the persons who were linked?
A. I had got past some, through the opening.
Q. Through the opening that was made to let this man through?
A. As soon as the word "spy" was, then they stopped me; I did not go any further. Some one said, "it is Joseph," when, on its being repeated lower down, I could not gather the expression, but it was either "knock him down and keep him down," or "put him down and keep him down;” I could not tell what it was.
Q. Did you soon extricate yourself from that situation?
A. I went back again.
Q. Did you observe any sticks among the multitude that morning?
A. As, they marched on to the ground, I saw sticks, and some large ones.
Q. From all that you had observed that morning amongst the multitude, previous to your receiving the warrant, did you deem it practicable to execute the warrant without military aid?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you think it could be attempted with safety to the lives of the peace officers, without that assistance?
A. I durst not do it, from the reception I had received a few days before that.
Q. On what occasion?
A. The execution of a warrant on a former occasion. The borough reeve, and constables, and me, and two or three of the beadles, were called to the New Cross; the paper sticker was posting bills.
Q. To post bills, for what purpose?
A. We had sent a bill sticker; and two of our men with him.
Q. For what purpose?
A. I don't recollect what it was for.
Q. What befell you all on that occasion?
A. We went to the place where it was said our men were in the house, and they were stoning the house; we went through the mob.
Q. It was four days before?
A. It was some day before; when we had got through the mob, there was a shower of stones came upon us.
Q. What became of the peace officers?
A. Mr. Moore and Mr. Clayton got away, and Andrew and me, and the two beadles, could not get away well; we got on the outside, and turned down Oldham-street, and then Mr. Moore and Mr. Clayton were bringing in the military.
Q. Without entering into the particulars of the transaction, did you judge it necessary, on that occasion, that you should have military assistance?
A. Yes; and I was much alarmed besides, for I had sent our men to the office to guard the house and the office.
Q. Then the recollection of that transaction, as well as what you saw on the 16th. August, contributed to deter you from executing the warrant without military aid?
A. Yes.
Q. The warrant, we are aware, was put into your hands; did you express that opinion to the Magistrates at the time?
A. Mr. Hulton, I believe, gave me the warrant, and I told him that it would be out of our power to execute it, without the aid of the military.
&. Did you advance towards the hustings with the two chief constables?
A. No; I went down towards the hustings first.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—What after you got your warrant?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you go along the line of special constables?
A. I did, till where there was a crowd. Hunt came ---
Q. Never mind him. Did you, at the moment, see how the people stood, between the head of the line of constables and the hustings?
A. Yes; I wanted to get on to hear what he was saying about knock down their enemies, and I could not get on.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—Who was saying?
A. I think it was Hunt, my Lord.
Q. Did you perceive whether they were still linked?
A. Yes; the people between the constables and the hustings. I could tell when they were linked, because, when they had their arms together to each other, they swimmed backwards and forwards; they did not stand steady as the other mob.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—In a uniform way?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you return to join the borough reeve and the constables?
A. I returned to the Magistrates’ house; I did not see, then, the borough reeve and the Manchester Cavalry.
Q. We have heard the story so often, I wish to confine your attention to the particular circumstances that you recollect; did you go up along with them, finally, to execute the warrant?
A. I drew the special constables back from the part where the crowd was.
Q. The upper end?
A. I went to the upper end, and told them to draw back to the Magistrates house.
Q. For what purpose did you do that?
A. To let the Yeomanry come down.
Q. Did you draw them back?
A. I drew them back; and when I was coming back, there was a stone came from the house where some Quakers were and lighted upon the ground where they went off.
Q. Fell upon the spot from which you had withdrawn the special constables?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you afterwards advance with the other officers to execute the warrant?
A. I asked Captain Birley-——
Q. Did you advance to execute the warrant?
A. I did not see Mr. Moore or Mr. Andrew.
Q. Did you go to execute the warrant or not?
A. I followed the military down.
Q. But you did not go along with the peace officers—you did not go with Mr. Moore and Mr. Andrew?
A. No, I did not: they started sooner than I thought they would, and I followed down.
Q. That gave you, perhaps, an opportunity of seeing how the military conducted themselves in their advance to the hustings?
A. It did.
Q. Did you see them cutting the people at right and left, as they went along, with their swords?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Do you think you should have seen it if they had done so; those who were there before you?
A. Yes, on getting to the hustings.
Q. I believe you finally got there, and assisted in taking the ringleaders into custody?
A. I took them.
Q. I believe you had been most in the habit of executing process?
A. Chiefly.
Q. That was your department?
A. Yes.
Cross-examined by Mr. Blackburne.
Q. Was it before or after you had got the warrant, that you drew the special constables back from Mr. Buxton's house?
A. After I had got the warrant.
Q. Did not you draw them back to Mr. Buxton's house?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. All that you could get?
A. I shouted out; I don't know whether there was all. There were some pressed back on the hustings: I heard that one was trod to death.
Q. You know that he was killed?
A. I did not see him, but I heard he was.
Q. But you drew all of them back that you could get up to Mr. Buxton's house?
A. I shouted for them all to come up.
Q. That was before the Cavalry went forward?
A. It was.
Q. How far did the Cavalry go before you, when you went up to the hustings to execute the warrant?
A. Till they began to be impeded, where they were locked together, I believe they were all before me.
Q. And how far was that from the hustings?
A. I should think that might be, I thought once in my mind it was twenty yards.
Q. And what do you think in your mind now?
A. I think it was twenty yards.
Q. You thought once, and still think it was twenty yards?
A. It was not so much till the black flag came in.
Q. I am not talking about the black flag; I am talking about when the Cavalry came up to the Hustings?
A. I think it was.
Q. They were impeded by the crowd?
A. A number of people.
Q. A crowd, a number of people, I suppose?
A. Yes; there was an immense mass of people collected about the hustings: there was the most people on the ground I ever saw in Manchester.
Q. Men, women, and children?
A. Mostly men, there were women.
Q. A great many women?
A. I didn't see so many.
Q. How many will you swear you saw?
A. I won't swear I saw one hundred.
Q. Did you see any children?
A. I don't know that I did.
Q. Then after you had drawn back these special constables, you went back to the Cavalry?
A. Yes; I went to Captain Birley.
Q. Captain Birley was commanding them?
A. I believe he was the Captain of the troop.
Q. Was he Captain of the troop or not?
A. He commanded them; either him or the trumpeter went first.
Q. Who was the trumpeter?
A. Meagher.
Q. They did both go up to the hustings?
A. They went the first.
Q. Where did the Lieutenant go?
A. Who is that?
Q. Lieutenant Withington?
A. I did not see him—I did not see him there at all.
Q. Did not you see him on the field that day?
A. I did not.
Q. Whether he was there or not you will not swear?
A. No; I cannot tell.
Q. Do you know Oliver?
A. I do not; nor did I ever see him till I saw him in this town.
Q. Then having drawn back the constables, you went back to Captain Birley?
A. I did.
Q. Then you say all the Cavalry, preceded you, till you got within twenty yards of the hustings?
A. I don't think there was one behind me; they were all going to the back of the hustings.
Q. Where were Moore, Clayton, or Andrew—before or after you?
A. I don't know where they were.
Q. Have you never sworn they were after you, that they did not go before you?
A. What I said was, the constables were after me.
Q. Do you believe that to be so now?
A. I cannot tell.
Q. How came you to swear so before?
A. I don't know; I never saw them before. I was the man at the hustings first, and pulled Johnson off;
Q. You did not see them before?
A. I believe Andrew took Johnson from me, after I had pulled him off. I think so, but I will not be certain.
Q. But you kept the warrant with you?
A. I did.
Q. You did not give that to Captain Birley?
A. No.
Mr. Justice Holroyd.—It was not directed to Captain Birley.
Mr. Blackburne.—I only ask him the question.
Witness.—I kept the warrant till I gave it to Rutter, to give copies of it.
Q. Now I understand you, that you had passed many times backwards and forwards up this line of special constables, before the Cavalry came into the field?
A. Yes; I had been out of the line.
Q. And again among the multitude?
A. Upon the outside.
Q. And you heard some expressions about good coats, and a good deal of meat?
A. That was when I was inside.
Q. They said they had better coats, and you seemed to be better fed; true enough, I fancy, at the time?
A. I don't know how they were fed.
Q. But you saw their coats were not very good?
A. Some of them were; not.
Q. You came back again, as soon as you heard some one say "spy"?
A. Yes.
Q. And they stopped the man with the roll of brown paper?
A. As soon as the word "spy" was, they stopped unlinking.
Q. So you turned back again?
A. I came back again.
Q. Without receiving any injury whatever?
A. I immediately came back, and went into the line of constables.
Q. Without receiving any injury?
A. Without any injury.
Mr. Blackburne.—I am glad to see that the shower of stones which came upon you, did not kill you.
Mr. Serjeant Cross.—He has not said a word about a shower of stones.
Mr. Blackburne.—You asked him about a shower of stones, at some other place.
Mr. Serjeant Cross.—True, some other place
Q. Did they knock you down?
A. No; they made me black in several places.
Q. But they were not of such a size as to knock you down?
A. They were of a size, several as big as a man could throw.
Q. But your excessive weight and strength prevented you from falling?
A. It happened so; if they had hit me on the head probably I should have gone.
Q. Was any body else knocked down?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you see any of your companions?
A. No; we could not come out of the mob for some time; when we came on the outside, we were peppered with stones; when we got inside it was rather moderate, because I saw one of the reformers get a terrible rap upon the cheek.
Q. Are all these mobs at Manchester, reformers?
A. A great deal of them.
Q. There is a pretty considerable number of reformers at Manchester?
A. Yes.
Q. Too many, you and Serjeant Cross think?
Re-examined by Mr. Serjeant Cross.
Q. Did you take shelter any where on that occasion?
A. Yes; I was very ill; and went into the White Bear.
Mr. Blackburne.—You put the words, "took shelter," and he says "we went in".
Witness.—We went into the back yard.
Q. For what purpose?
A. I was very ill and threw up.
Q. You were sick?
A. Very ill indeed.
Q. Were you followed by, or did you get quite rid of these people?
A. When we got to the middle of Oldham-street, we did not look much behind us, for we ran as hard as we could.
Q. You ran as hard as you could to get away?
A. Yes.
Q. Are we to understand that you yourself saw that all the special constables came back to Mr. Buxton's house, or merely that you desired them to do so?
A. They could not half of them come, because there were a good many hundreds.
Q. They could not half of them come?
A. I don't know the quantity.