John Willey Eyewitness Account

• Place: Manchester
• Role: Spectator
• Occupation: Butcher

Witnessed conversations in Slater’s pub relating to meeting of the 16^th. ‘Johnson talked about the preparations making for the 16th. The artillery to be brought up. &c, and laughed at it.’

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John Wiley, examined by Sergeant Hullock. —I reside in Manchester I know Joseph Johnson. I saw him in a public house, kept by a man named Slater, on the 6th of August. The landlord, Johnson an myself, only were present. I had previously seen papers up, announcing that the meeting of the 9th was to be put off to the 16th. I remember we had some conversation about the meeting. Johnson said, “the great men of Manchester think, that by putting off the meeting from the 9th to the: 6th, it will be entirely done away with; but they are under a mistake: we shall be ready by the 16th for anything which the soldiers can bring against us. ” This was on Friday the 6th of August. I do no recollect what led to the conversation. We had a great deal of conversation about the Ludding, and about Mr. Horsefall being shot. Johnson said he knew that there was then a certain body of men combined together, to go to London to clear and upset the House of Commons, or something like that, and the reason they did not go was, that their funds were not sufficient to support their wives and families, in the event of their being taken prisoners. I recollect nothing more. We were together three quarters of an hour, or an hour.

Cross-examined by Mr. Johnson. —I am a butcher; I never followed any other employment; I was never employed as a spy in Manchester. I know Henry Moore, a butcher; I owe him money You heard the conversation I have stated, with myself and Slater. I was going by your door, and you sent your servant after me.

Cross-examined by Mr. Hunt—Mr. Johnson and I were drinking in a public house together; we had some ale. I was never in your company in my life. We were not drunk. It was not a drunken conversation. I thought he ought to have kept his conversation to himself. I did not want to know anything about it. We said nothing about killing calves. He said; he knew it as a fact that the people had intended going to London. I thought it a very serious business, and I told the landlord I was of opinion that had Nadin been there he would have taken him up. Did not then know him, but when he was gone I asked the landlord who he was. He said, “What don't you know him? That's Johnson the brushmaker, the great reformer. ” I thought many persons had been apprehended for much less. Johnson told this to myself and Slater. During the conversation Mr. Slater went out to wait on some other company, and part of the conversation was related in his absence. He was out when Johnson said, “by the 16th we shall be prepared for any thing the soldiers can bring against us. ” The landlord's name is John Slater. He and I have talked over this matter together, but not much, as I thought but little about it. Slater is now here. It was not in consequence of any conversation with Slater that I recollect his being absent when the words I mentioned were used I know he was out at the time, and he knows it too. I have heard him say so he did not say anything about Johnson being taken out. I did not expostulate with Slater about permitting such language in his house. We waited to hear what Johnson had got to say. We asked him no questions. I never informed Nadin of this nor did I take any steps to have Johnson apprehended. I had something else to do than troubling, myself about it. The landlord and I talked this over after Johnson went; away, but I believe did not that night tell him what a serious affair had been communicated to me in his absence relative to the 16th of August I cannot say when I first told Slater what had been, said in his absence. I have had some talk, with him about it since it took place. I did not go to the Police office until the Magistrates sent for me. I do not recollect whether I mentioned it to Slater before or after I had been sent for. I. have aid very little about this to Slater since we came here. I know he is subpoenaed to give evidence of this fact. He and I do not lodge in the same house.

Re-examined by Sergeant Hullock , —With the exception of a female servant, there was nobody present but the three I have mentioned, when this conversation tools place. Johnson talked about the preparations making for the 16th. The artillery to be brought up. &c, and laughed at it. It was after he had been before the Magistrates that Johnson sent for me. I went to his house. I do not know how he learned that I bad been before the Magistrates. I went into his shop; there were three or four persons present. He said. ”So you have been before, the Magistrates, have you?”I said yes. He asked who sent for me. I said a beadle came-for me. He asked, me if I had been fool enough, to go, I answered yes. I told him, I went about eleven o'clock at night. He asked me if: I had seen the man's authority. I said I had not” “Then,” said he, ”the more fool you for going”. I would not go with any man, without seeing his authority. ” He then said, “So, Mr. Willey, tell us what passed between you and the Magistrates. ” I said I could not tell him there; but if he would go into a private room, or to the York Inn, I would tell, him what passed, and he would find it correct. He said no, he was not ashamed to have what he had said repeated before everybody. I told him he had behaved very ill in sending for me before so many persons; they looked like Attorneys, or such like. I bid him good night and went away.

But the Judge. —When I went to him. He took me into a front shop, and refused to go into a private room with me; he said, if I was not ashamed of what had passed. He was not.

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