John Shuttleworh Eyewitness Account

• Place: Manchester
• Role: Spectator
• Occupation: Cotton & Twist Mannufacturer

Testifies to peacefulness and good order of meeting and to seeing Yeomanry strike while still twenty yards from hustings. Also notes that constables drew back out of the way as Yeomanry arrived.

Account

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Mr. John Shuttleworth sworn: examined by Mr. Evans.

Q. You are a wholesale cotton and twist manufacturer, residing at Manchester?

A. I am.

Q. You were at the meeting on the 16th. August, 1819?

A. I was.

Q. At what hour did you arrive?

A. About a quarter before twelve.

Q. Did you see many of the parties come on the ground?

A. Several.

Q. They had flags and music, we understand?

A. Generally they had.

Q. What kind of tunes did they in general play?

A. I do not remember any tunes being played, during the progress of the parties; but round the hustings, on one occasion, the tune of "God save the King” was played; that was about half-past twelve; the people in the immediate neighbourhood of the hustings, were uncovered during the time.

Q. Did you take notice of any constables?

A. I passed through a double cordon of constables, that reached from Mr. Buxton's house to the hustings.

Q. Did you see any body of the military in Dickinson-street?

A. I can tell, from half an hour before twelve: I was at the top of Windmill-street, on some elevated ground; but when it was understood Mr. Hunt was coming on the ground, I went down Windmill-street, and took a station in the rear of the hustings, and about fifteen yards from the hustings.

Q. The rear of the hustings would be between the hustings and Windmill-street?

A. Between Windmill-street and the hustings: I continued in this station until Mr. Hunt arrived, and then I got on the hustings.

Q. Well?

A. Immediately after this, there was some confusion on the part of the crowd, near Mr. Buxton's house, which excited my attention; and I stepped back a few yards for the purpose of ascertaining the cause. As soon as I was in a situation to see Dickinson-street, which is at right angles with Cooper-street, I observed a regiment of infantry, which I afterwards understood to be the 88th. Regiment, turning out of Cooper-street, round the corner into Dickinson-street; they halted —when the whole body had passed the corner, they halted, and faced fronting the meeting.

Mr. Justice Holroyd.—Fronting the meeting of the people?

A. Yes; and within view of the angle of it, which is near Mr. Buxton's house.

Q. Well?

A. Mr. Hunt, seemingly noticing the confusion which prevailed on the part of the meeting, and who could not, from his situation on the hustings, see the cause, directed the people to cheer; and I heard him say to some person just behind him, that he did so to rally them.

Q. Well?

A. After this interruption, he went on with his address to the people, and he continued speaking for a few minutes—a short time, I should think not so much as a few minutes; when I observed the Manchester Yeomanry Cavalry turn the garden wall of Cooper's Cottage into Mount-street. Their presence caused considerable agitation, and after a lapse of a few moments, the people cheered. Immediately after the cheers of the people, the Yeomanry cheered also, and waved their swords about their heads; at the same time, I moved, during this reciprocal cheering, to the front of Mr. Buxton's house, and to a few yards of the left flank of the Yeomanry; there was a small mound of earth opposite Mr. Buxton's house, on the opposite side of the street, and on that I stood. During this time, the line of constables extending towards the hustings, were drawn back, or drew back, I do not know whether by orders or not; they drew back, and as that part of the meeting had been, during the whole of the morning, comparatively less crowded than any other, and as the people fell back also with the constables, they left an open space of perhaps forty or fifty yards, in front of the Yeomanry Troop.

Mr. Justice Holroyd.—What you call falling back, was not towards the Yeomanry?

A. Yes; towards the Yeomanry, so as to fall back on their left flank by Mount-street; it seemed to be done consentaneously, because it was more like a wheel. As soon as this place was cleared, I heard Mr. Birley say something; and in a few moments after, the Yeomanry proceeded towards the hustings. The first two or three files went off in order but the remainder of the troop galloped after them in considerable confusion; the speed of the horses was increased as they passed through the open space, until they got to the compact part of the crowd. It appeared to me as if; soon after they entered the crowd, they assumed a circular appearance, and I saw them striking the people; I continued looking on until they got up to the hustings, and then I left the ground through Lower Mosley-street, and met the Cheshire Yeomanry and the 13th. Hussars coming to the meeting: I went home immediately.

Q. We have understood that this was a very large meeting?

A. A very large meeting.

Q. Can you form, any judgment of the number that might be there?

A. I have referred to a Letter I think perhaps the best judgment that can be formed, for it was the impression made at the time.

Mr. Justice Holroyd.—You have refreshed your memory with something?

A. I have.

Q. What do you state as your impression?

A. I stated it at more than 50 000.

Q. That was your first impression?

A. That was my first impression.

Q. Could you form any opinion as to what proportion of the people were people of Manchester?

A. Including the outskirts, and those who took an active part in the meeting, I should think two thirds were from Manchester and the immediate neighbourhood.

Q. Previous to the attack of the Yeomanry, what was the conduct of the people?

A. The conduct of the people was orderly and correct in the most exemplary degree.

Mr. Justice Holroyd.—Orderly and what?

A. Orderly and correct—decorous.

Q. Bid you see any stone, or sticks thrown at the military?

A. None.

Q. Did you feel any alarm for, your property, on the day of the meeting of the people?

A. Not the slightest.

Q. Had you much property in the town of Manchester on that day?

A. It is a very difficult question; I had considerable.

Q. You mentioned that you passed through a cordon of constables, did you see the constables walk up and down?

A. Within two minutes I saw Mr. Nadin.

 

Cross-examined by Mr. Starkie.

Q. A cordon you call a double row?

A. No; one line.

Q. I suppose you took a note and put it all down?

A. I did.

Q. It would take you some time to write this out?

A. I do not know.

Q. I should like to know, I have some little curiosity; how long did it take you?

A. I should think ten minutes.

Q. Then you write quick; have you refreshed your memory?

A. Since I came to Lancaster I have looked at my evidence— my evidence at York.

Q. Which you have given in the same words, except some few; I do not remember your using the words "reciprocal shouting:”is that Mr. Hunt you speak of, Henry Hunt Esquire?

A. Mr. Hunt.

Q. Is he a friend of yours?

A. He is not, nor an acquaintance.

Q. Perhaps you do not know Mr. Johnson?

A. I know him when I see him.

Q. Or Mr. Carlile?

A. Assuredly not; I do not know his person.

Q. Did you see Mr. Hunt?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was with him?

A. I cannot tell.

Q. You was at the Exchange that morning?

A. I was.

Q. Did you see Mr. Hunt come past the Exchange?

A. I did not.

Q. Did you see a number of these people come in?

A. I did; a considerable quantity.

Q. Where did you station yourself?

A. I was standing in front of the Exchange.

Q. We are told they came in “beautiful order;”every thing was conducted with great decorum?

A. I think so.

Q. They marched well?

A. They walked in tolerable order, but I saw nothing like marching.

Q. That you state?

A. I mean distinctly to state it.

Q. Like a sick club; men undrilled?

A. When I have been in a procession at Manchester, I have walked in the same manner.

Q. Perhaps you have been drilled?

A. I have.

Q. Now I ask you, on your solemn oath, if they did not march as if they had been drilled?

A. Certainly not; I saw nothing in my mind, as evidence of their having been drilled; I should not have concluded, from their mode of walking, that they had been drilled.

Q. They had music?

A. They had.

Q. Perhaps they did not keep time?

A. I think they might keep time, it is natural they should.

Q. I should like to know-—perhaps we may differ only as to terms—I should like to know what you mean by marching, and keeping time?

A. Then, according to your meaning, they marched; what I mean by marching, is preserving an uniformity of step; it was a lounging step, while the music was faint.

Q. But the step was guided by the music?

A. Yes; I think it was.

Q. We shall not differ much; then they kept their step to the music?

A. I imagine so.

Q. Perhaps you have a good ear, you could do it without drilling?

A. If I was walking to music, I should keep step.

Q. Did you see a flag?

A. Yes.

Q. A black flag?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the inscription on it?

A. "Equal Representation or Death.”

Q. Any other inscriptions?

A. I cannot give you any other inscriptions.

Q. Perhaps you did not take a note?

A. I did not.

Q. I will jog your memory; was it any thing like this, "Better to die like Freemen, than be sold like Slaves"?

A. I did not observe.

Q. Was there any thing like a pike, with a bloody dagger?

A. It escaped my observation.

Q. If any such had been there you must have seen it?

A. Why I might.

Q. How near to the hustings was you. where these flags were arranged?

A. I was within fifteen yards.

Q. Within such a distance as you could read them?

A. Those that were near the hustings, I should conceive I could;

Q. Were they not placed round the hustings?

A. I think not—in a line towards the Quakers' meeting house-but very soon after the flags were lowered.

Q. Do you mean to represent, that at the time Mr. Hunt came to the hustings, they were not ranged round the hustings?

A. I have an indistinct recollection but I think they were not.

Q. Were there any such inscriptions on any one of these flags, near the hustings?

A. I have no recollection of seeing it, either there or elsewhere.

Q. Then they escaped your observation?

A. They certainly did.

Q. When the Cavalry appeared, the people moved off from the outskirts; when was it the people began to move off?

A. I think it was not before the Cavalry began to make their appearance.

Q. When Mr. Hunt desired the people to cheer?

A. They were going not off the ground, but in such a situation as to see Dickinson-street.

Mr. Justice Holroyd.—As if moving from their station to get a view of the 88th. Regiment.

Q. The expression was, that Mr. Hunt did so to rally the people?

A. He desired the people to cheer those who were falling back, to see what was going on in Dickinson-street.

Q. You say that when the Yeomanry approached, those in front went slower than those in the rear?

Mr. Justice Holroyd.—No; he said those in front went rapidly; he said the two first files went off in order, the others gallopped after them confusedly.

Q. That may be moderated into a canter; do you mean gallop, or a canter?

A. I think the whole of the horses' legs were off the ground at the time.

Q. Does that explain whether it was a canter or a gallop?

A. I understand by it, a gallop.

Q. You doubt whether it was not a canter?

A. I have heard it called differently.

Q. Are you speaking from your own observation?

A. I have told you what the action was.

Q. You have represented that it was a gallop?

A. I mean to do so.

Mr. Justice Holroyd.—He said it might be a canter; but he called it a gallop.

Witness.—The left flank went off in order; the right flank before their turn, in order to proceed across at an angle to overtake the left flank, and that was at a gallop.

Q. They took a nearer course?

A. They did.

Q. If they had taken a more circuitous course, they would have gone quicker still?

A. If they had gone at once, they would have gone at the same pace.

Q. But they went at a quicker pace?

A. They had broken out of rank.

Q., In order to get up to the foremost?

A. That appeared to be their object.

Q. How far had the Yeomanry got before you, when you saw them striking with their swords?

A. I should think not more than ten yards, in the compact part of the crowd.

Q. How far from the place where they set out—Mr. Buxton's house?

A. Perhaps sixty or seventy yards, perhaps not so much.

Q. That was some time before they got to the hustings?

A. Yes.

Q. You did not see them, get to the hustings?

A. Yes; I waited.

Q. How far were they from the hustings, before you saw a blow struck?

A. Perhaps thirty or forty yards, perhaps not so much; I am not certain.

Q. It is of importance to be certain?

A. It is quite impossible I should be accurate.

Q. Do you venture to represent to the Jury, that you saw any of the Yeomanry strike, after they had got forty yards?

A. I think it was more; I have stated my belief.

Q. Do you swear that you saw them strike, before they got to the hustings?

A. I swear it distinctly; that is my impression.

Q. Do you venture to swear, that before they, got twenty yards, any of the Yeomanry used their swords?

A. I venture to swear, that before they got to the hustings, they commenced striking, and that the distance was twenty yards from the hustings.

Q. Did you hear a person of the name of Burgess examined here yesterday?

A. Yes; I was in court all day yesterday, with the exception of half an hour.

Q. Do you recollect, what he said?

A. I have not a distinct recollection.

Q. I put it to you once more, whether you will venture to swear that which you have already sworn; whether any one of the Yeomanry struck at the distance of twenty yards from the hustings?

A. I saw striking by the Yeomanry; by one or more.

Q. Will you swear to two?

A. I will.

Q. To five?

A. I will; I should think twenty or thirty.

Q. Then you will swear to twenty or thirty striking at the distance of twenty yards?

A. To the best of my belief, twenty yards.

Q. Of course you have an intimate acquaintance with all the; Manchester people, those who were likely to attend a meeting of this kind—the lower orders?

A. My acquaintance is not much among them.

Q. Then how do you estimate that two-thirds of the Manchester people were present?

A. My mode of calculation was this; I considered that there were no country people, except those who attended in procession.

Q. Then your calculation was founded on the fact, that there were no country people present who did not march in procession?

A. I do not say there were none; however, these are matters about which there can be no certain opinion.

Q. Then, according to your calculation, there were fifteen or twenty thousand came from the country in procession?

A. There might be.

Q. Which you yourself saw?

A. I saw only that division from the country, which passed the Exchange.

Q. Then, in your judgment, those who marched in procession amounted to from fifteen to twenty thousand men?

A. I should think so.

Q. Have you been active in procuring the attendance of witnesses in this business?

A. Certainly not.

Q. Have you had any communication with Mr. Hayward?

A. I have had two or three; Mr. Hayward, I believe, is not a Manchester attorney; indorses Took's Court, Chancery-lane.

Q. Have you been long acquainted with him?

A. I can scarcely call him an acquaintance, it being only since I was subpoenaed.

Q. Have you had conversations with him?

A. I have had several conversations with him.

Q. Are you a member of the Committee connected with the meeting?

A. I was a member of the Committee for the relief of the Sufferers.

 

Re-examined by Mr. Evans.

Q. Pray, Mr. Shuttleworth, where was you drilled?

A. At Manchester; I believe in Salford.

Q. At what period?

A. I believe after the renewal of the French war; when the system of volunteering commenced, after the renewal of the French war.

 

Cross-examined by Mr. Starkie

Q. You do not know Mr. Redford, the plaintiff?

A. I do not; I believe I have seen him.

Q. Had you any conversation with him?

A. If I had any conversation with him, it must have been after the meeting; I should not know him.

 

Re-examined by Mr. Evans.

Q. Did you see any difference in the manner these people came on the ground and benefit societies?

A. I did not.

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