Hannah Lees Eyewitness Account

• Place: Oldham
• Role: Spectator

John Lees’ step-mother, testifying at the Lees Inquest. She describes the health and demeanor of John Lees travelling to and from St. Peters Field, his decline and death. Saw and dressed the ‘foul cut’ on John’s arm when he returned.

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HANNAH LEES called, sworn, and examined by the CORONER.
Q. Are you the mother of the deceased?
A. I am his mother-in-law. [This must mean step-mother.]
Q. Did he sleep at your house on the night of Sunday, the 15th of August?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Did you see him on the morning of the 16th of August?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Did you know he was going to the Meeting at Manchester, on that day?
A. No; when I got up I supposed he was at work at the factory.
Q. When did you next see him?'
A. I saw him in the evening, a little before dark.
Q. Where was he then?
A. He was standing at the gate, and I went and asked him to come in, and have his arm dressed.
Q. How did you know he was hurt, if you had not seen him before?
A. Some one had told me he was cut before I saw him.
Q. Well, what became of him?
A. He came in, had something warm, and went to bed.
Q. What was it he had?
A. He had some tea and toast.
Q. Did you see him after he was in bed?
A. No; I did not see him again that night. I did not go into his room, because I did not expect there was any thing so serious, until my son Thomas told me it was a foul cut.
Q. Who first told you he was wounded?
A. My son, James Whitaker, first told me he was wounded.
Q. When did you next see him?
A. I saw him again the next day, in the forenoon; he then had his breakfast in bed.
Q. What time did he get up?
A. I can't tell; but I saw him down stairs about eleven o'clock.
Q. Did you see his wounds then?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Did you inquire whether he was hurt any where else but his arm?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Did you do any thing to him, or see the cut on his arm?
A. No; I advised him to go to a doctor, and he went directly to the doctor. I saw him when he came back, and asked if he had his wound dressed, and he said he had.
Q. Well; what became of him after this?
A. The rest part of the week he lay in bed chiefly, and walked about.
Q. What do you mean by his laying in bed chiefly and walking about. Did he not go out of the house?
A. He remained in bed till two, or past two, in the day, and sometimes he stopped in the house, and sometimes walked out for a bit of fresh air; he was quite poorly, and used to throw up what he ate.
Q. Did you see him throw up his food?
A. No.
Q. Then how do you know it?
A. I saw him go out of the door, and heard him reaching; and when he came back, he said he had thrown up his food, and that every thing came up.
Q. When did he get worse?
A. On Wednesday in the second week he began to grow worse.
Q. Did the doctor attend him during this time?
A. He regularly applied to the doctor till the Wednesday, and had what he wanted. After that day Mr. Earnshaw came to the house.
Q. What was the first day Mr. Earnshaw visited him?
A. He came on the Thursday.
Q. What did the doctor say about him?
A. I had not much conversation with the doctor. I asked him what was to be done, and he ordered him medicines which were to be taken three times a day, and he took them.
Q. Did you see the wound?
A. Yes; I saw it twice—once on the second Saturday, and once before; it was on the right elbow.
Q. Did you see any other wound?
A. No, I did not.
Q. What was the appearance of the cut on the elbow?
A. It seemed to be in a healing state.
Q. What like cut was it?
A. It was about two inches long, and the opening about the breadth of my little finger.
Q. Did you not see it afterwards?
A. I don't remember seeing it again. It hurt me to see it, for it was a very foul cut, although in a healing state.
Q. Did he say he was hurt any where else?
A. He complained of his left shoulder very much.
Q. When did he first complain of that?
A. After he grew worse, and I was obliged to raise him up to drink.
Q. When was this?

A. It was nearly a week before he died. The first time I lifted him (about a week before his death) he made faces, and complained that his left shoulder was more painful than his cut arm.
Q. Did you examine it?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Why did you not?
A. Because he said it had no cut upon it, and he was afraid of its being stirred. Whenever he moved, or he was disturbed, he said he felt a violent pain.
Q. Did he complain of any thing else?
A. Yes; he complained of his foot too, and said, he thought it was swelled. I examined it, and found it had many purple spots on it, and it was swelled and inflamed up the leg.
Q. Which leg was it?
A. The left foot.
Q. Did he say what was the cause of it?
A. No; he said very little. After the accident he was very low and down-spirited.
Q. Did this appearance of the spots alarm you?
A. Yes; I was alarmed, and I asked my son if I should send for any other doctor, but he said, no; he did not think any one could do better for him than Mr. Earnshaw.
Q. Did you tell the doctor about the purple spots on the foot?
A. Yes; the next day the doctor came, and I was present when he examined it; he ordered a poultice, and I put one upon it; he regularly complained of his left side, and gradually lost the use of it.
Q. How do you mean, he lost the use of it?
A. He lost the use of his left arm and the sight of his left eye, before he died.
Q. Did you attend him yourself?
A. I attended him daily, from the time he began to grow worse until he died.
Q. When did you observe the great alteration in him for the worse?
A. On the Wednesday but one before he died, there was a great alteration in him for the worse; he, was taken with a severe coldness.
Q. Where was he at this time?
A. He was in bed; he had found himself ill early in the morning, and went to bed again.
Q. How soon after did he die?
A. On the Tuesday next but one, about one o'clock in the morning.
Q. Did the coldness you speak of continue with him until his death?
A. No; he was relieved from that coldness, and came regularly down stairs until Sunday the 29th, and did not particularly complain of pain.

Q. Did he go out on that Sunday?
A. He went to the doctor to get his arm dressed; he was then very poorly.
Q. Did he continue to come down stairs as usual?
A. After this Sunday he used to like to be in the kitchen for company; and my two sons carried him down stairs, for he was so weak he could not come down by himself, except on one occasion.
Q. When was the last time of his being down stairs?
A. On the Saturday before he died he was brought down, and had four or six leeches put on his temple. He was carried up on Saturday night, and never came down again.
Q. Had you any conversation with him respecting his health?
A. I asked him if he thought he should get better; he said he did not know. I asked if he had not got an inward injury by being crushed in the crowd. He said, no; he had not been in the crowd; it was done by the horses.
Q. When did this conversation take place?
A. This was on Saturday before he died.
Q Did he say any thing more?
A. On Sunday and Monday he said very little; he could say “No” with difficulty.
Q. Did you see his clothes?
A. Yes; I examined his clothes; his shirt was cut in many a place, and his coat was cut over his shoulder and elbow.
Q. When did you see this?
A. I can't exactly say when I saw this; I did not at first think it would be so serious.
Q. What part of his coat was cut?
A. On his left shoulder the coat and waistcoat were cut through.
Q. What was the length of the cuts?
A. In one place it was an inch and a half: it was where he complained of pain in the shoulder.
Q. Was his shirt cut at that place?
A. I did not examine his shirt on his shoulder.
Q. Who washed his shirt?
A. I think Betty Ireland (who is below) washed his shirt.
Q. Was any other part of his clothes cut?
A. I cannot say; the top of the crown of his hat was off.
Q. What sort of a hat was it; was it an old one?
A. I believe it was a middlingish good hat before he went to the meeting.
Q. Was his hat cut?
A. I did not particularly examine it to see if it was cut; but I saw the top was out.
Q. Did he go out much after he was wounded?
A. He was not often out of the house in the first week; he walked out sometimes.
Q. Do you remember his going out at any time in particular?

A. On the Sunday but one before he died I heard him say, he would take a walk towards Middleton; he asked me for a shilling.
Q. On his return did he say that he had been there?
A. No.
Q. What time did he go out?
A. About five o'clock.
Q. Did you see him again that night?
A. No, I did not; he often passed up stairs without my seeing him.
Q. What time did he go to bed?
A. I don't know what time he went to bed that night.
Q. When did you next see him?
A. I saw him at eight o'clock the next morning; he came down stairs.
Q. Did you not ask him whether he had been to Middleton?
A. No; nor did I hear him say whether he had been there or not.
Q. He was in the habit of drinking freely, I believe?
A. I did not see him intoxicated in the least after he was hurt.
Q. Was there not some difference in his appearance for the worse after he went to Middleton?
A. I did not see any; and he made no complaint.
Q. Without his complaining, could you not perceive an alte¬ration in him?
A. I did not examine him, but told him to get his breakfast.
Q. Did you never see him intoxicated at any time after going to the meeting?
A. No; I never saw any sign of intoxication, or that he had tasted liquor; he was quite low and humble after the 16th of August, and he always refused liquor in the house when I asked him, except once he tasted a little wine and water with some women.
Q. Was he not unwell before he went to Manchester?
A. No; he was as healthy as any man in the factory; he had always been very sprightly, and was very regular to his work.
Q. Did you not hear him complain of pain in his breast?
A. He never complained to me; but somebody told me he had complained.
Q. Who told you so?
A. I quite forget; and whether it was any one in the house, or not, I cannot recollect.
Q. Did he ever complain in your house?
A. He never did.
Q. Will you swear you never heard him complain of a pain in his breast, within a week of the time he went to Manchester?
A. I will.
Q. Did he take any medicine before the 16th of August?
A. I never remember his taking physic before the 16th of August: I don't recollect any thing of the kind.
Q. I have heard that you said to Mr. Chadwick, that you did not wish for an Inquest, as the pain in his breast had occasioned his death; and now recollect that Mr. Chadwick is here, and tell me whether you said so?
A. I did not say to Mr. Chadwick, that the pain in his breast occasioned his death. I did not want any disturbance about the matter, and I told Mr. Chadwick, that as he had lived so long after he was hurt, I did not think there would be any occasion for an Inquest.
Q. Did you give that as the only reason, without mentioning the pain in his breast?
A. I wished him to be buried without any disturbance; and therefore, I dare say, I might have mentioned to Mr. Chadwick, that I heard he had a pain in his breast.
A JUROR (to the Coroner)—Mr. Coroner, ought not Mr. Chad¬wick to leave the room?
The CORONER (to the Juror who spoke)— No, I think not; he knows what he is to be examined to, as well as I do.
The CORONER (to the Witness)—Did you assign the pain in his breast, as the cause why no Inquest was necessary?
A. I wished to put it off without any ado.
Q. Did you assign that as a reason, or as a part of the reason?
A. No, not exactly. I was no judge of the business; I did not know that he had a pain in his breast. My husband ordered me to send a man to Mr. Chadwick, to know whether there should be an Inquest. Mr. Chadwick sent the man to the doctor, to get a line from his hand.
Q. Who was present when Mr. Chadwick came to your house?
A. I do not recollect; Mr. Chadwick can best tell.
Q. Can you believe what Mr. Chadwick says?
A. Yes, certainly.
Q. Who went for the doctor?
A. I sent a man. He brought a line from Mr. Earnshaw, and I told him to take it to Mr. Chadwick; and Mr. Chadwick told me, he wished I had not told him any thing about it.
Q. When was it Mr. Chadwick said, he wished you had not let him know any thing about it?
A. I don't know whether it was when he brought Mr. Cox to inspect the body, or before.
Q. Was any other part of your family at Manchester with your son?
A. No.
Q. Do you know who was with him?
A. I do not; but Mr. Chadwick perhaps can tell you.
Q. He sent for one man, who was with him. Did any person see your son after his death?
A. Dr. Cox examined the body on the day it was buried; — the 9th of September.
Q. Had no other surgeon examined it previously?
A. No.
Q. The last time you saw the wound, before his death, it seemed to be mending?
A. Yes, it was drawing to a close; so that he could use his arm.
The CORONER (to the Jury)—Have any of you Jurymen any question to put?
A JUROR (to the Witness)—Have you ever heard John Lees say how he came by the cuts on his clothes, or his elbow?
A. No; he said very little.
A JUROR—When you told Mr. Chadwick you thought there was no occasion for an Inquest, did you say so because you believed he died of a pain at his breast?
A. No. He had been sometimes irregular in taking his meat; but I did not think any thing particular ailed him.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—Mr. Harmer, do you wish to ask any questions?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—With your permission, Sir, only two or three.

The Witness examined by Mr. HARMER.

Q. You have said, Mrs. Lees, that no medical men saw your son after his death, except Mr. Cox. Do you not recollect some gentlemen inspecting the body with the Jury?
A. I cannot recollect it.
Q. Look at these gentlemen, Mr. Earnshaw and Mr. Basnett; did not they see the body?
A. I saw some gentlemen turning the body over, which distressed me very much, and I went away; and I was so very much affected, that I do not recollect who they were.
Q. Who laid out the body?
A. Betty Ireland and James Clegg.
Q. You have told us, Madam, that your son was in good health and spirits before he went to the Manchester meeting. Was he sprightly and well, up to the very day before?
A. He was.
Q. Did his illness and lowness of spirits directly follow?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. Did he gradually grow worse from the time he was hurt, until he died?
A. Yes.
Q. You have said, your son was frequently sick, and cast what he ate from his stomach. Had you ever observed this previous to the 16th of August?
A. No; not that I recollect.
Q. You have been asked, if he was not addicted to drinking; now I will ask you, if you ever saw him have the least appearance of intoxication, from the 16th of August, until he died?
A. No, I did not.
Q. You say, he once took a little wine and water. Did he not decline taking even this, until it was pressed upon him, and he was told it would do him good?
A. Yes. [The Witness was now ordered to withdraw]

Mrs. LEES was now ushered into the room, and after having been sworn by the Coroner, her examination was commenced by Mr. ASHWORTH.
Q. I understand, Mrs. Lees, you are the step-mother of the deceased?
A. Yes, I am.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—As my authority for appearing here, Sir, is now questioned by the learned Counsel, I must confess, I should be very glad to know by what authority, and for what purpose, he attends here?
Mr. ASHWORTH (to Mr. Harmer)—The Coroner is satisfied with my authority, Sir.
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Ashworth)—That is more than I know, Sir.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—Are you satisfied, Sir, with my authority for appearing here?
The CORONER (to Mr. Ashworth)—Yes, I am, Mr. Ashworth.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)-—Are you equally satisfied, Sir, with the authority by which this gentleman, Mr. Harmer, appears here?
The CORONER (to Mr. Ashworth)—No, I am not; and I wish that to be understood to be the reason why Mrs. Lees is sent for.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner) — Whatever insidious motive there may be, Sir, in any quarter, for sending for Mrs. Lees, I care not, nor am I at all afraid of any examination that she may undergo upon the subject; but I should submit to the learned Counsel’s own delicacy, that however you may be satisfied with his authority for appearing here, it should not remain as a matter of personal secrecy between you and him.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to Mr. Harmer)—Oh! Sir, l am attending her on the behalf of the town of Manchester.
Mr. HARMER - That authority I mean to question.

Examination of the WITNESS resumed by Mr. ASHWORTH.
Q. Have you employed any body, madam, to conduct this business respecting the death of your son, for you?
A. Employed any body?
Q. Yes, employed any body. Have you employed any body to inquire into this business, to bring forward that inquiry before the Coroner?
A. There came some gentlemen to our house, and said, “they supposed we wished justice to be done," or "should we wish to have the matter brought to justice?".
Q. Well, what did you say to that?
A. I said “to be sure we should, and I did not think any thing but justice would be inferred. We did not think of anything else."
Q. What more was said by you or by these gentlemen?
A. I cannot exactly say. He inquired concerning my son's illness, and something of that sort, and what we thought was the cause of his death.
Q. Well, what did you say?
A. I said, I believed he had lost his life through being wounded at Manchester, and there was no reason to believe any thing else.
Q. What further passed, madam?
A. I can't exactly say what particulars might pass. They did not say very much more to me. Something more, perhaps. They asked me if I had reason to believe it, and I said I had.
Q. Can you tell me whether any of those gentlemen were any body that you now see here?

[At this question, Mr. Harmer and Mr. Denison instantly rose from their seats in order that they might be visible to the witness.]

A. I think I saw those two gentlemen at my house.
Q. That is, Mr. Harmer and Mr. Denison?
A. I did not take any particular notice of their persons.
Q. The account which you have already given us of what passed between you and them, is all that passed at that time?
A. I think it is, as much as I can say. I cannot say any thing more correct.
Q. Have you seen those gentlemen again, since?
A. I think one of those gentlemen came down to my house since; I cannot say both, but I believe both did.
Q. How long was that after the first time they came to you?
A. I can't speak to the day; but it was the day after my son was buried.
Q. Were they at your house before your son was buried?
A. Yes, they were, I think. But they were there so many times, and we were so agitated, that I can't speak to all the times they were there.
Q. What passed between you on the second time they came?
A. They asked me if I recollected what had passed before, and I repeated those words, that we wished them to be brought to justice, because we had no thought of any thing but justice.
Q. Was that all that passed the second time they came to your house?
A. I think it is nearly all. I can't say a word more, that I know I can say correct.
Q. Did you hear anybody say any thing about expenses at any time?
A. Expenses?
Q. Yes, for law, or any thing of that kind?
A. I said, I believe, that my husband was not desirous to prosecute any body on his own account. He did not want to stand law¬suits, and I did not think that we were to be put to any expense in the case, you know.
Q. What was said by the gentlemen to that?
A. They said that they would not put any expense on us; God forbid that they should,
Q. Did any thing more pass?
A. I cannot recollect whether any thing more passed: I cannot recollect the words of any more,
Q. Did you employ any person whatever, in any way, to conduct the business relative to the death of your son?
A. Any one that came to our house I gave them a civil answer, and, to the best of my knowledge, a true one.
Q. Then I understand you to say, that you have not employed any body to conduct this business?
Me. Harmer (to Mr. ASHWORTH)—Is that, Sir, the way that you put questions to impugn the character of a professional man?

The examination of the WITNESS resumed by Mr. ASHWORTH.
Q. Did you employ any one to conduct this case?
A. We have nothing to do with it, any more than when a person is murdered, does any body employ any person? I supposed Mr. Mellor, the constable, would do it.
Q. You had nothing to do with employing any body to conduct the case? '
[Here the Witness hesitated.]
A. We had nothing to do with any prosecution.
Q. You said something about supposing that Mr. Mellor, the Constable, would do something. What was that?
A. My husband told Mr. Mellor, that he did not want to have any expense in prosecuting, or any thing of that kind; and he said that the countable was sworn to indemnify them from expense.
Q. Who did you understand, then, was to conduct this case?
A. We did not know that it was necessary, or that it needed any one to conduct this case.
Q. Are you a married woman?
A. Yes.
Q. Then did either of these gentlemen see your husband, to your knowledge?
A. I don't recollect that they did; nor do I recollect that they did not. I cannot say which, but I think they did not.

Examined by Mr. HARMER.
Q. You say, you remember our coming down to your house before your son was buried?
A. Yes.
Q. And you say we asked you the cause of your son's death?
A. Yes.
Q. And you explained it?
A. Yes.
Q. Was any thing said to you, either by Mr. Denison or myself, to induce you to say any thing that was untrue with respect to the cause of the death of your son?
A. Oh! no; no such thing.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—That is not enquired into.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—But, Sir, what passed at that in¬terview has been asked; and, therefore, I submit, I have a right to ask this question; and indeed as to all that passed.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to Mr. Harmer)—You might as well ask the whole history of this old lady's family.
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Ashworth) - There may be fifty observations made—I see their object; but they shall not drive me into confusion, or from my purpose.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to Mr. Harmer)—Dear me, you are very tender.
Mr. HARMER—I wish other people were as tender as I am.

Examination of the WITNESS resumed by Mr. HARMER.
Q. Did you not say, that you should be glad of the assistance of Mr. Denison and myself to bring the persons, whoever they were that killed your son, to justice?
A. You expressed yourself that you supposed we should wish it to be brought to justice, and I said to be sure we should.
Q. Did you not say, that you should be glad to have our assistance to bring the persons, who killed your son, to justice? Now, recollect.

[Here the Witness hesitated, apparently to consider the question.]

A. No; I don't know that I exactly said that; but I know it was something answerable to that.
Q. Do you know your husband's hand-writing?
A. I can't say positively.
Q. Do you believe that to be his hand-writing?—[Putting a letter into the hand of the Witness.]
A. I can't exactly say.
Q. Very well. Now, when you say your husband did not wish to go to any expense did not that conversation apply to bringing actions against those who had libelled your son? Did not that apply to some idea he entertained of bringing actions against those persons who had slandered your son?
A. I rather believe my husband wished to bring every thing to justice.
[Mr. Denison now arose, with a letter in his hand, and addressed the Coroner, in the manner following:]
May I be allowed now, Sir, to explain how I came to have these interviews with Mrs. Lees?
The CORONER (to Mr. Denison)—Not at present.

The WITNESS examined by the CORONER.
Q. What was it you expected would be brought to justice?
A. We understood that if a person was killed, though he had not any parents in the world, it would be inquired into.
Q. Then did you mean, that you expected those people, by whom he lost his life, would be brought to justice?
A. I did not state, nor do I know, who it was.
Q. But, whoever it was, did you expect them to be brought to justice?
A. We expected the action would be seen to, whether he lost his life by them or not.
Q. And those by whom he lost his life, you expected to be brought to justice?
A. Yes. We answered all such questions as were asked, but we did not think the thing would be carried to such a length.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—Will you ask her, Sir, if she employed anybody to bring those people to justice?
[The Coroner repeated Mr. Ashworth’s question to the Witness.]

A. Which way do you mean employ any body? Do you mean to carry on law?
Q. Yes.
A. I told you as far as I told them, and I cannot tell any one any thing more.
Q. Then you did not speak to any one about it, to carry on the Inquiry?
A. I cannot say any thing more than I have said about it.
Q. Then did you expect to have any thing more “to do" with it?
A. We did not think it would be more than a common inquest, you know. Why it was carried on in a different way we cannot tell.
Q. You say, these two gentlemen have been at your house again, since the first time?
A. Yes; I believe they have.
Q. When was it?
A. I don't know that I can tell the day.
Q. How many days since was it?
A. I can't say.
Q. Surely you can say how many days it was ago?
A. It was about the latter end of last week, I believe.
Mr. ASHWORTH—"About the latter end of last week, I believe."

[The learned Counsel here appeared to take down the Witness's answer after having repeated it which seems not to have escaped the notice of the Witness.]
The WITNESS (to Mr. Ashworth)—Yes! yes! you may make a memorandum of it if you please.

The examination of the WITNESS resumed by the CORONER.
Q. Was your husband at home when these gentlemen first came to your house?
A. I think he was not at home at that time.
Q. Was he at home when they came the second time?
A. I don't know. I think not.
Q. Did you know them when they came the first time, or were they strangers to you?
A. They were strangers to me, and many strangers came to speak to us about it.
Q. Was any thing said about pay, or money, or expenses, or law?
A. No other than what I stated before.
Q. Was fifty pounds never mentioned in any way?
A. I think one of them said, “God forbid we should be at any expense; he would sooner pay fifty pounds out of his own pocket than that should be."
Q. Do you know which that was?
A. I can't exactly say.
Q. Was it one of those two gentlemen?—(pointing to Mr. Harmer and Mr. Denison.)
A. Yes.
Q. Has nobody spoken to you to-day about this business?
A. Yes. Mr. Cox spoke to me in this room.
Q. Was any thing more said to you by Mr. Harmer or by Mr. Denison?
A. No; nothing has been said more to me about it, but that I was to come here again.
Q. (At the suggestion of Mr. Cox)-What did Mr. Cox speak to you about in this room?
A. About my son's sickness.
Q. Did nobody else speak to you upon this subject?
A. I believe also some of the work-people spoke to me.
Q. Who was it? And what was it they said?
A. Somebody came and said I should be called up again to-day.
Q. Nothing more?
A. Nothing more.
Q. Do you expect to have to pay these two gentlemen, Mr. Harmer and Mr. Denison, for their attendance here?
A. No such thing!
Mr. HARMER—No, certainly not; I never asserted any such thing, nor do I think of charging these poor people a farthing.
The WITNESS—I expect to be used in that, as all other Inquests are; and I never heard of any expenses coming upon a family from an inquest.

JONATHAN MELLOR called, and sworn by the CORONER, and examined by Mr. ASHWORTH.
Q. are you the Constable of Oldham?
A. At present I am.
Mrs. LEES (to The Coroner)—You have called me to answer questions which I don't exactly understand.
The CORONER (to Mrs. Lees)—Stop a moment; you shall hear what Mr. Mellor says.

The examination of Mr. MELLOR resumed by Mr. ASHWORTH.
Q. Have you employed Mr. Harmer, or Mr. Denison, or any body else, to conduct this business for you?
A. Certainly not. Mr. HARMER—Certainly not. I never said so.

The examination of the WITNESS resumed by Mr. ASHWORTH.
Q. Have you had any conversation with Mrs. Lees about her having employed any one to conduct this business?
A. I was there last Thursday night, and amongst other things—-
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Mellor)—Stop, Mr. Mellor, a moment; (To the Coroner)—I should like to know, Sir, in what course we are now. The learned gentleman first calls a witness to prove something, and then he calls another witness for the purpose of either confirming or refuting her testimony. Now, I ask, Sir whether that is a course of regularity?
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—What he is going to do is perfectly correct. This person is the constable of the town, and her is the proper person to employ any one, if any assistance was wanted.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—But, I submit, Sir, that what passed between this witness and Mrs. Lees, is not evidence.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—Whatever passed in her presence is evidence.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)-- Is it, Sir? that is more than I was aware of.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—Really, Sir, if the character in which this gentleman is here is at all in doubt, and he has been employed by any living creature, would he take such objections as these, to this investigation? I should think he would rather court it.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—Sir, I do court it, if it is to be conducted with candour and with fairness; but I will not have conversations inadmissible in evidence, and which passed between third persons, brought in to attack my character. You have ap-pealed to the woman herself, and I will stand by her declaration; but I don't want to be bound by her answer to any idle question that may have been asked of her out of this Court.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—That declaration, Sir, of Mrs. Lees, by which this gentleman says he will stand, is this: that she does not consider that he is at all employed by her. She is a married woman, and her husband is the only person who could properly employ any one. He has never seen them at all; and therefore, I appeal to you, whether I am not strictly in order; and whether the learned gentleman ought not to thank me, for seeking this further explanation, in order that he may be set right with the public and with this Court. He has stated that that lady employed him, and she denies it.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I certainly do not, Sir, thank the learned Barrister for what he is pleased to call setting me right before this Court and the public; nor do I think his exertions are at all necessary for that purpose. With respect to Mrs. Lees hav-ing employed me, I say she has not denied it.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—Yes, she has.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I beg your pardon, Sir. I asked her whether she had not asked for my assistance to bring the murderer of her son to justice, and she said, "yes, she did, or something answerable to that."
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—She said “no;" and after a great deal of hesitation.

Mrs. LEES re-examined by the CORONER.
Q. Did you or did you not ask these gentlemen to give you their assistance?
A. I was going to tell you, but you stopped me.
Q. Then I ask you again; did you or did you not ask these gentlemen to give you their assistance in this business?
A. I have stated it.
Q. Did you or did you not solicit, or ask, or request these two gentlemen to do any business for you relating to your son's death?
A. I don't understand the word exactly.
Q. Well then, have you told us before what, they said to you, and what you said to them?
A. Yes, as near as I can.
Q. Would you have employed some gentleman in Oldham, or some gentleman from London, to conduct the inquiry for you, if you had employed any body?
A. We did not know we had occasion to employ any body.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—There, you see, she has said it over and over again; that she expected it would be conducted by me in the usual way.
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Mellor)—I ask you, Sir, whether you ever knew a town to appoint a Barrister to appear in behalf of the accused at a Coroner's Inquest, or on behalf of the town?
Mr. MELLOR (to Mr. Harmer)—You don't ask me that, do you, Sir?
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Mellor)—Yes, but I do.
Mr. MELLOR (to Mr. Harmer)—I don't know any thing about such things.
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Mellor)— Can you tell me what the town of Manchester has to do with the town of Oldham in this busi¬ness?
Mr. MELLOR (to Mr. Harmer)—I don't know any thing that it has got to do with it.
The CORONER (to Mr. Mellor)—Do you know what London has to do with it?
Mr. MELLOR (to the Coroner)—No.
The CORONER (to Mr. Mellor)—Or Liverpool?
Mr. MELLOR (to the Coroner)—No.
Mr. HARMER(to the Coroner)—Now, Sir, if you will permit me, I will ask Mr. Mellor a few more questions.
Mr. MELLOR cross-examined by Mr. HARMER.
Q. Did you summon this Inquest?
A. I did not; but my deputy did.
Q. The man died, I believe, on the Tuesday morning?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell me what time the summonses were served upon the Jury?
A. I cannot. I was from home. I left home on the Wednes¬day morning.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—The warrants themselves would shew when they were issued.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—They would, Sir; but they would not shew when they were served, which is the material point that I want to prove; because, a very short time elapsed between their date and the time that the Inquest was to sit.
Mr. MELLOR's DEPUTY—Th man died in the morning; and I be¬lieve they were issued at night. They were served the same day they were issued.
Mr. HARMER (to the Deputy)—At what time was the Inquest to meet?
The DEPUTY—I don't exactly know, now.
Mr. BATTYE—At eleven o'clock the next day.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—I submit, Sir, that the only regular mode of proving this, is, by producing the summonses.
The CORONER—That is the only right way, certainly.
Mr. MELLOR examined by Mr. HARMER.
Q. Do you believe that one twentieth part of the witnesses that have been summoned upon this occasion, would have been sum¬moned, had it not been for the interference of the London and Li¬verpool attorneys?
Mr. BARROW—I don't believe they would.
Mr. MELLOR (to Mr. Harmer)—I may say that there was more than a twentieth summoned.
Q. Do you know one single witness that was summoned from Manchester, or of any witnesses who were summoned from any place, but from Oldham?
A. I did not know of the Inquest.
Q. You did not know of the Inquest?
A. No. My Deputy did.
Q. Is an Inquest then of so little importance here, that the Con¬stable of the Township does not know of it? Was it communi¬cated to you?
A. No, it was not.
The CORONER (to Mr. Mellor)—Can you give any explanation of this?
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Mellor)—You may give any explanation you please, Sir.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—The lady has told you that she expected that this would be conducted like any common In¬quest.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—So it would have been like a common Inquest, Sir, had it not been for the proceedings, intro¬duced by others.
Mr. MELLOR—My deputy has told me that he had eighteen wit¬nesses summoned. I saw my deputy on the Monday following, and I then saw a list of eighteen witnesses. But I think I had better state all I had to do with it. After hearing—
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—Now you see, Sir, this gentle¬man (Mr. Harmer) is trying to bring into question the conduct of Mr. Mellor; and he is in fact turning the tables upon him, in order that he may shift this question from his own door.
Mr. MELLOR (to Mr. Ashworth)—No such thing, Sir; I am in¬clined to think not.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—Now really, Sir, is this connected with the inquiry before you?
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—You have asked the witness, whether he knew of the inquest, or whether he summoned the Jury. This is connected with who did. (To Mr. Mellor)—Go on.
Mr. MELLOR—When I heard that this affair was likely to come to something serious, I asked my deputy, and said, “Do you know of any witnesses who wish to come, and who are not in this list?" He then mentioned several, but said they were in the list already. I asked him if there were any more, and he said “No," and when he said so, I was satisfied and came away.
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Mellor)—Did you ask him whether any of those witnesses had been called or summoned to attend on the Wednesday previous or not, when you know the Jury were to sit and determine the cause of the death?
A. No.
Mr. MELLOR examined by Mr. ASHWORTH.
Q. Do you feel that you stand upon the same ground that you did formerly, or do you think that you are lifted up since these gentlemen came to the neighbourhood?
A. I feel much about what I was; I am not altered in any way.
Q. Do you think, by these luminaries making their appearance in this neighbourhood, that there was not ability sufficient in this part of the country to conduct this proceeding?
A. I should think there is enough ability in the neighbourhood to do it.
Q. You have been asked whether you thought that twenty witnesses would have been produced on this occasion by you?
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Ashworth)—I said one-twentieth part, Sir, of the witnesses, that have been and are still to be produced.
The examination of the WITNESS resumed by Mr. ASHWORTH.
Q. Well; you have been asked whether you think that one-twentieth part of the witnesses that have been produced, would have been produced by you. Would all the witnesses have been produced, that you considered necessary, and all those that Mr. Ferrand, the Coroner, or the relations of the deceased, considered necessary for the investigation of this case?
A. I believe they would.
Q. Do you think it would have ever occurred to you as necessary to produce a turnpike man, whose gate was three quarters of a mile from the field of Saint Peter's, to say how many people came through his gate on the 16th of August?
A. Must I answer that question?
Q. Yes.
A. I should not have produced a turnpike man, because I am not acquainted with the case, nor with what that man could say. But it might be necessary, for what I know. I only produced witnesses as far I could hear that they knew any thing about it.
Q. Has the evidence that has been produced by these gentlemen, been calculated, in your opinion, to have any other effect than that of misleading the Jury and confounding the case?
A. I beg leave not to give any opinion on that subject, unless Mr. Ferrand wishes it.
The CORONER made no answer.
Mr. ASHWORTH—Witnesses produced by persons who obtrude themselves in this way, can have no other effect.
(To Mr. Mellor)—Would you not have done your duty, Sir, to bring the whole of this matter before the Coroner?
Mr. MELLOR (to Mr. Ashworth)—Certainly I should: there has been only one inquiry of this nature taken place, since I came into office, and I think that has terminated to the satisfaction of all parties.
Mr. MELLOR examined by the CORONER.
Q. From what you know of my conducting investigations of this sort, have you any reason to suppose that truth and justice would not have marked my proceedings, or that the case would not have been carried on fairly, without any body interfering?
A. I believe from your character, and from your usual method of conducting these things, that justice would be done.
Q. Do you think that the investigation would have been con¬ducted as well, for the satisfaction of public justice, then, as it is now?
A. No doubt.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—Now, I don't suppose, Sir, that you will think that when I sit here, doing my professional duty, I come here by choice, or for the purpose of being supported by popular applause, as others do. Far from it, Sir. I come but here to do my duty to those who have sent me, which I hope I shall do, though I may be held up, on account of the interests for which I appear, to the dislike and odium of my fellow-creatures. I say this for my own part, Sir, to shew that I do not obtrude my. self upon your notice without proper authority (as that gentleman has said, but which I shall shew, by and bye, has been very unwarrantably and improperly said, and is an assertion which is in-supportable by any fact). I do not go from the position with which I first set out, that I have proper authority for appearing here, and perhaps greater authority than his; but I am at this moment, Sir, ready (supposing that gentleman and his coadjutors are ready to do the same) to retire from the field, and to leave it to you, Sir, to do as you have done on all former occasions, viz. to satisfy yourself by the examination of witnesses, and to see that all the proofs and facts are brought before you, which are necessary to the justice of the case. That, I am willing to do; and let all this agency vanish. Don't, however, let me be supposed to support the employment of those persons who appear to me to have no authority whatever to appear before you. They are strangers from a distance, neither connected with Oldham nor the place where they say the death of this person was occasioned, nor where the, wounds were given from which they say this person died. They are not connected with this neighbourhood, nor with any body in this neighbourhood. They are not connected with the town of Manchester, whose peace has been disturbed; nor are they connected with any one thing, nor any one circumstance by which they have a right to meddle in this business; but I say, for my own part, that I shall with the greatest alacrity and pleasure retire from this investigation, leaving justice to be done by you, Sir, as I know it will be done, provided they will pledge themselves to pursue a similar line of conduct.
It has been said, Sir, in fact, that the accused, have no right to appear by Counsel before a Coroner who is investigating the justice of the case, or the charge that is attempted to be made out. Has the accused no such right? Does not the statute say, that you are to receive all evidence, on all hands, if it be offered, as well for exculpation as inculpation, and as well to remove as to prove the charge? But you are satisfied, Sir, that I appear here for the town of Manchester, part of the people of which are accused. You are inquiring whether the death was caused at all in that town. Part of the people of that town are accused; the whole town have taken up that accusation as a foul and malignant calumny against them, and this body have employed me here to protect their interests. I say, Sir, that you have decided from the credentials I have delivered in to you, that I am here in a recognised and authorised capacity—that I am here in fact not irregularly, not like other persons, who can't prove that they have any authority at all for appearing here; but who obtrude upon you, and I ell you that you can't manage the thing yourself, and, in fact, that they are to con¬duct the plan of this business from beginning to end. You can ascertain, Sir, that I am employed by a neighbouring township of great consequence, to appear here, and my credentials are before you. It is within your power at any time, that you doubt the credentials of these gentlemen, and wish for investigation, to ascertain whether they are forged ones, or whether those gentlemen are here in any regular capacity by which they are authorised to act the part that they do before you. The statute, Sir, has given you full power to do all this, and has stated it to be an open Court. Any gentleman might bring in evidence to prove the charge, provided he was acknowledged by the Court, as being properly there, or as being employed by any person interested in the investigation; and therefore, it does appear to me, to be no kind of parallel between the situation in which I stand before you, and the situation in which these gentlemen stand. After the evidence that has been examined on this subject, it does appear to me, Sir, that they have obtruded themselves upon you; for their employment is disavowed by the wife; and even supposing she had said, that she had employed these gentlemen to conduct this business, she is not a person properly authorised so to do. The husband is the only person who could employ any one; and even if the wife had employed these gentlemen, such an authority would not be worth a farthing. She has said, however, that she understood this business would be conducted by Mr. Mellor, as the constable of the town. Mr. Mellor has been called, and he has told you that he never employed these gentlemen; and therefore, though one of these gentlemen stated, with a great deal of asperity, that the step-mother of the deceased had employed him, you find that is not so, and you find even if it was so, she has no power whatever, from her situation, to give an authority. A wife has no authority independent of her husband, who had all the authority; and be has given no authority to these gentlemen on the present occasion. Therefore, Sir, I say, that Mr. Harmer and Mr. Denison are not properly before you; and it is really, as it appears to me, beneath the dignity of this Court for you to submit to the dictations of any body. You hare a competent authority, derived from high jurisdiction—derived from Acts of Parliament to regulate the proceedings of your own Court; and there¬fore I do submit, that you ought not to be interrupted by these kind of interpositions. With respect to myself, I am legally before you, I am before you by the laws of the land, and I have a right to be before you, and nobody else; but the gentlemen who are sitting around me. You have nothing to do, Sir, with people out of doors—you are not to listen to the suggestions of strangers, whom nobody knows; and I trust you will now declare whether these gentlemen are at all legitimate organs, by which this inquiry is to be conducted.
The CORONER made no reply.
Mr. DENISON (to the Coroner)—May I now be allowed to ex¬plain, Sir, what the conversation was, that passed between us and Mrs. Lees?
The CORONER (to Mr. Denison)—You are not upon oath.
Mr. DENISON (to the Coroner)—But I will put myself upon oath, Sir.
The CORONER (to Mr. Denison)—The conversation of Mrs. Lees with the constable has been objected to, as not being evidence. I think if what you are going to say, is to contradict her, I cannot receive it.
Mr. DENISON (to the Coroner)—But it is not to contradict her, Sir.
The CORONER (to Mr. Denison)—Did Robert Lees, the father, send for you?
Mr. DENISON (to the Coroner)—Yes, Sir, he did; and this is his authority for our attending the Inquest.
[Here Mr. Denison produced a letter, which he said was by Robert Lees, the father of the deceased.]
Mr. DENISON (to the Coroner)—Am I to be allowed to read the letter?
The CORONER—No; the handwriting is not proved; it is not evidence.
Mr. HARMER now rose, for the purpose of replying to Mr. Ashworth's observations, but was stopped by
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—Before you reply to any observations of Mr. Ashworth's, you must state by whom you have been employed, and from whom you expect to be paid?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I don't choose to answer that question.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—Have you any objection to state by whom you are employed?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I have stated, that I am employed by the parents of the deceased.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—I don't think you are; but by whom do you expect to be remunerated?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I say, Sir, you have no right to ask me that question.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—Well, I take it for granted that you object to it.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I do.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—But what objection can you have to state who is to remunerate you, if you come here fairly? Mr. Ashworth has stated who is to remunerate him, and he knows whom he can recover it from. Do you mean to say you can re¬cover any remuneration for your services from the father of the deceased?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—Mr. Ashworth has said, Sir. that he is attending here in behalf of the inhabitants of the town of Manchester. I see a great many most respectable inhabitants of that town, who are now bystanders, who know of no such appointment, and who would spurn the idea of sanctioning such appointment.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—I am, Sir, employed by the constables of the town of Manchester.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—Who are also accused.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—Suppose they are accused, and suppose they are guilty, is it not competent for them to have Counsel here? They can retain Counsel, and if he shews a direct retainer, that is quite sufficient for him to appear here, as much as if you shewed that you were properly employed by any body. And all witnesses are to be examined on both sides before me.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—You stated just now, Sir, that Mr. Ashworth might recover his remuneration for his able assistance here, but you must be aware that a Counsel cannot sue for fees.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—You need not tell me that.
Mr. BARROW (to Mr. Harmer)—Nor can you bring an action, Mr. Harmer, for a libel on a dead man.
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Barrow)—I never said I could.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—You did.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—-I beg your pardon, Sir; I said no such thing. These poor people contemplated bringing actions against those who had vilified the deceased; and that was the subject of my question to Mrs. Lees; but I never meant that such actions could be sustained, nor did I ever say any such thing.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—I say you did.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I deny it, Sir: I did not.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—Since you treat me with such disrespect, before I allow you to proceed any further in con¬ducting this case, I must see your authority, and know from whom you expect to be paid.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I do not expect to he paid by these poor people, Sir; but I have been requested to attend here by the step-mother.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—I don't believe she requested you to attend here, from what she has said.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—Besides, Sir, you know the husband would not be bound to pay for her engagement.
Mr. HARMER—I think differently.—(To the Coroner)—Well, Sir, notwithstanding all that has passed, I shall continue to con¬duct this case in the manner in which I have done hitherto. I shall continue to produce such witnesses as I think will advance the justice of the inquiry. You may, it is true, turn me out, if you please.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—Who has engaged you?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I mean to say that I am engaged by the parents.
The CORONER (to Mr Harmer)—By nobody else?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I am engaged by the parents.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—By nobody else? You first said you were engaged by the friends of the deceased; then it is by the relatives, and at last it is by the step-mother; and you have also frequently made use of the phrase, “that you are attending here for the Crown."
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I do say, Sir, that I consider myself standing here as an humble advocate for the Crown, although employed by Mrs. Lees, the step-mother of the deceased.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—You may say that you are attending here for the Crown. Has the Attorney-General em¬ployed you?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—No, Sir, he has not; nor have I ever insinuated such employment; on the contrary, I have told you who is my employer.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—When I heard, Sir, this gentleman say he attended here for the Crown, it immediately occurred to me, as there had been a meeting upon this subject in London, at the Crown and Anchor Tavern, that he had dropped the “Anchor" in stating by whom he was sent here, and retained only the Crown.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I must say, Sir, that I was not employed to conduct this business by the meeting at the Crown and Anchor Tavern, to which Mr. Ashworth alludes; and if allowed, I will explain the origin of my employment. I was attending to prosecute some indictments against individual members of the Manchester Yeomanry, for maliciously cutting, under Lord Ellenborough's Act, at the last Lancaster Assizes; and on my re¬turn from Lancaster, while I stopped at Manchester, I heard, accidentally, of this Inquest. I saw Mrs. Lees before the Inquiry was commenced by Mr. Battye, and she stated that she wished to have my assistance. I considered that was sufficient authority; and, indeed, you yourself have acknowledged my right to appear here in the capacity in which I do. You not only always allowed, but invited me to put such questions as I thought necessary, to any of the witnesses, before this gentleman, Mr. Ash¬worth, arrived; and it is only since his arrival that you have put upon me these very unusual restraints.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—And it arose from your own interference.
Mr. DENISON (to the Coroner)—Will you now allow me. Sir, to explain what passed between me and Mrs. Lees; and will you allow me to put in this letter before you?
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—Will you be good enough to ask, Sir, what is the date of that letter?
Mr. DENISON (to the Coroner)—It is dated
The CORONER—Stop, Sir. If people are employed to conduct a case fairly, they would not go in secret to be employed; and people do not employ strangers who have no interest in the business, but who go in secret about it.
Mr. DENISON—Is there any person here who knows the signature of the deceased's father?
[No one answered.]
The CORONER (to Mr. Denison)—After what the witness, Mrs. Lees, has said, I cannot admit any thing else that may have been obtained on the subject. There was a meeting betwixt you and her, and she has told us the whole that passed on that occasion.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—And she has said that she did require our assistance.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—I deny that.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—Then, I beg that Mrs. Lees may be asked again.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—No, no, Sir; we know what pains are taken to make people say things.
Mr. HARMER (to Mrs. Lees) Did you not say, Mrs. Lees, that you would be glad to have our assistance, when we first saw you?
A. Yes; I said that I should be glad of the people being brought to justice.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer) -There, you see you cannot make her say it.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—"Make" her say it, Sir; she has said it without compulsion.
Mr. DENISON (to the Coroner)—This letter, Sir, was delivered to us yesterday week, previous to Mr. Ashworthrs arrival; so that it was not sent to us, as it is insinuated, in consequence of any discussion that may have taken place as to our authority for appearing here.
The CORONER (to Mr. Denison)—That is not very likely.— When was the letter got?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—What do you mean, Sir, by "got?" I beg to say, it was never "got."
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—She never sent for you to her house.
Mr. BARROW (looking at the letters which had been handed in)—-
The hand-writing of the letter is quite different from the signature. It is the hand-Writing of yourselves.
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Barrow)—Do you deliberately mean to assert that, Sir?
Mr. ASHWORTH (to Mr. Harmer)—Do you mean to deny it, Sir?
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Ashworth)—I do deny it, most positively. I never saw it, or knew of its contents, until I received it after it had been opened by my friend, Mr. Denison; and I have no notion, Sir, of permitting the ungentlemanly and indecent insinuations of Mr. Barrow to pass without reprehension.
Mr. BARROW (to the Coroner)—I hope you will not think it irregular for me to get up, Sir; but I cannot be made the subject of personal observation without reply; and though I have not the good fortune of living in London, I trust I have a little common sense, and I shall not submit to insult.
Mr. HARMER. (to Mr. Barrow)—What do you mean by insult, Sir? Did you not charge us with having fabricated a letter?
Mr. BARROW (to Mr. Harmer)—I say so. No, I did not say fabricated; I said that the signature was a different hand-writing from the body of the letter.
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Barrow)—Very well, Sir, very well. I know what you said.
Mrs. LEES (here interposed in the following manner:)—My husband was unfit for writing a letter, and he got it wrote for him; it was after the death of my son, when they said rum things of him in the newspapers.
Mr. HARMER (to Mrs. Lees)—Did your husband get a person to write to us to ask our assistance?
A. Yes.
The CORONER (to Mrs. Lees)—To get what?
A. I can't say what; to bring the people to justice, I sup¬pose.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to Mr. Harmer)—If you were employed by the husband, it is very easy to prove it.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer, after some deliberation)—At present I consider that you are not employed at all, by either the father or the step-mother; nor are you employed by the constables of Oldham. That is what I consider.
Mr. DENISON (to the Coroner)—But I submit, Sir, that the father of the deceased has, by this letter, confirmed our employment by his wife,
The CORONER (to Mr. Denison)—I don't care for that. I know nothing about that. Who will pay you?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—We don't consider ourselves compelled to answer questions of that sort, Sir.
Mr. ASHWORTH—It is quite clear, Sir, that it has been jobbed—it has been sought after—it has been asked for.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—It has not been asked for, Sir, more than in the first instance.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—You still refuse to say by whom you expect to be paid?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I don't know that I shall be paid at all, Sir; though I have advanced a very considerable sum out of my own pocket.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—I ask you, Sir, have you no expectations that you shall be paid?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I say, Sir, that I will give my services gratuitously, and will engage not to accept payment from any one.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to Mr. Harmer)—That is, you will give your services gratuitously to the Coroner?
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Ashworth)—No, Sir, to the friends of the deceased; and I will not be paid by any body.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—These services are given to you, Sir, whether you require them or not.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—No, Sir, I don't offer them to you, I offer them to the friends of the deceased, to see that justice is done. My services, humble as they are, I give gratuitously. I don't know whether the liberality of the learned Counsel will suffer him to say as much.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to Mr. Harmer)—I dare say, Sir, there is quite sufficient wealth in the town of Manchester, not to suffer me to go unpaid. In so unpleasant an investigation as this, I am sure I would not volunteer my services; and unless I expected to be paid, I would not stop one moment longer.
The CORONER—That is a good deal more like the truth than what Mr. Harmer has said.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)— No doubt, Sir, that is your opinion.
The CORONER (here deliberated for some time, and then ad¬dressed Mr. Harmer)—If we proceed with the inquest, do you mean to interrupt us in the manner in which you have done?
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I don't know what you call interruptions, Sir. I certainly mean to tender such witnesses as I think can give important testimony upon the present occasion. If I am not allowed to tender such witnesses as I think can give material and important evidence, you will tell me so; but I certainly mean to tender them, and to suggest such questions as I think likely to elicit the truth; and I request that no other person may be allowed to interfere in any other way in this inquiry, if I am to be restrained.
The CORONER (here deliberated for some timey after which he delivered his opinion)—I cannot think, that it is for the facility of this business, or for the service of the purposes of justice, that the interference we have had already, has continued; nor do I think that the continuation of it by unauthorized strangers to this meeting, ought to be further allowed. I am very anxious to have a full investigation and inquiry upon the present occasion; but a great number of the witnesses, produced by these gentlemen, have been produced to prove irrelevant facts, which I have determined were inadmissible in evidence, and still the same sort of witnesses continue to be called to prove the same sort of facts. I shall therefore not permit those gentlemen to pursue the course they have pursued any longer.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—Well then, Sir, I certainly shall send in to you the names of a great many more witnesses, and I shall certainly pursue the course of submitting to you such questions as I think material to be asked of the witnesses, until you actually commit me.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—If you flatly and openly told me whom you represented, and by whom you expected to be paid, I could have no objection whatever to your pursuing that course.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I say, Sir, that I give my services gratuitously, and I never yet, by those who know me, was accused of want of frankness or veracity.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to the Coroner)—There never was an instance known yet, Sir, where, after persons had appeared not to have been engaged by any person, that they were suffered to continue In court.
Mr. HARMER (to Mr. Ashworth)—Not suffered to continue in court, Sir I beg to say, Sir, that the Coroner has no authority to turn me out of court, so long as I act with propriety and decorum, notwithstanding your illiberal suggestion.
Mr. ASHWORTH (to Mr. Harmer)—I mean, continue in court in the character of an agent.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I beg to state, Sir, that the inquiry cannot be conducted so as to attain the full ends of justice, as I conceive, unless you suffer me to give you some information. You cannot know what witnesses I have collected, nor what they can prove.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—If the names then of such witnesses are sent to me, I can call them and examine them.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I have no objection to that course; but, Sir, as you do not know the facts that they can prove, and as I do, I shall certainly take the liberty of suggesting to you such questions as I think material to be put to them.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—It is a pity you will not lay it before me in the way they do by whom you are employed, and give a proper feature to it. I never knew it refused before.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I should like, Sir, to have Mrs. Lees' answer read over again, in order that we may see how it stands upon your notes.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—You have got it down your¬selves.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—Well, Sir, we will take it, as we have it. I asked her if she did not require Mr. Denison's and my assistance to bring the murderers of her son to justice, and she said, she did.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—No; she said no such thing.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—We have a very different impression of her answers here, Sir. Perhaps you would be good enough to let me ask her again.
The CORONER (to Mr. Harmer)—No; she has been asked quite often enough, and you cannot make her say it, although you have attempted.
Mr. HARMER (to the Coroner)—I have not attempted to make her say any thing, Sir.
[The Coroner here appeared to deliberate whether he would go any further to night, as it was now past six o'clock, and after hesitating some time, he looked at Mr. Ashworth, and the other Gentlemen sitting at his table, and said]—For to-night we will call in another witness from Manchester, and then we will see what he* will do.

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